Landing a glider

[Surfer!]

On topic AFAIK, even though it seems to be mostly about powered draft
here. Sorry if it's not!

Anyway - the gliding is going fairly well, lots of stuff signed off
including winch launches, but landing is being 'interesting' in terms of
seeing when to start the round-out - the airbrake stuff will come fairly
easily except at present my mind is a bit distracted worrying about the
round-out. Does anyone have any 'handy hints' they care to share?

TIA

[Gail]

Hi,

Post by Surfer!
Anyway - the gliding is going fairly well, lots of stuff signed off
including winch launches, but landing is being 'interesting' in terms of
seeing when to start the round-out - the airbrake stuff will come fairly
easily except at present my mind is a bit distracted worrying about the
round-out. Does anyone have any 'handy hints' they care to share?

Look over the nose of the glider before take-off and try to memorise the
picture.
This is the picture you'll refer back too when you're trying to land, i.e.
it should give you an idea at what point the a/c will touch down.

Use you're peripheral vision to gauge you're angle of decent during the
approach, making sure you have the correct airspeed for the conditions. As
you come down the approach, you may go through wind shear and turbulence so
you need to be adjusting the air-brakes accordingly to keep your decent
steady and to make sure you round-out and touch-down where you intended and
not somewhere else. And don't become fixated as unforeseen events may
require you to alter your landing plan, like some numpty towing a glider or
walking across your approach path for example.

The actual round-out, hold-off and touch down is a bit of an art form. There
is no exact science to it other than lots of practice - but generally many
instructors won't send you solo until you can demonstrate a properly
held-off landing. Holding-off on landing can be a bit tricky as you will
now be in what is called 'ground effect'. As the a/c gets closer to the
ground a cushion of air becomes compressed beneath the wings. This has the
effect of making the controls much more sensitive and over rotating is
common - it's the reason people balloon on landing. We've all done it, you
will too, but practice will get you through it. Talk to your instructor
about ground effect.

Finally and probably most importantly, always remember, 'Never Low and
Slow' - your always better off with too much speed than not enough. If your
low and not where you want to be, you'd better be going pretty damn fast.
Gliding is a trade-off of resources. Speed can give you climb, altitude
gives you options like distance - if your low and slow, you've nothing to
trade and you'd better be at an airfield or a well chosen land-out point.

Hope that helps.

Happy Landings

Gail

[phil collin]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Gail]

Post by phil collin
As to airbrakes, once you've got them set to maintain your landing
reference point leave them where they are.

...assuming you don't encounter any wind sheer or turbulence this should
work fine.
if you do encounter wind-sheer and do nothing to account for it you'll
plummet like a rock and at best undershoot or at worst, crash - I've seen it
happen.

G

[phil collin]

Post by Gail

Post by phil collin
As to airbrakes, once you've got them set to maintain your landing
reference point leave them where they are.

...assuming you don't encounter any wind sheer or turbulence this should
work fine.
if you do encounter wind-sheer and do nothing to account for it you'll
plummet like a rock and at best undershoot or at worst, crash - I've seen it
happen.
G

Bearing in mind we're talking about a pre solo pilot who asked for tips
on when to flare I think we can leave the scare stories on all the
nearly accidents just waiting out there for you don't you?
Phil
CFI 8 Ball Soaring Association.

[Gail]

Dear Phil,

Post by phil collin
Bearing in mind we're talking about a pre solo pilot who asked for tips
on when to flare I think we can leave the scare stories on all the
nearly accidents just waiting out there for you don't you?

I completely agree.

And I sincerely urge that 'Surfer' discusses all of this with his
instructors.



best wishes

Gail

[Surfer!]

In message <e6r93u$73c$***@news.ox.ac.uk>, Gail <***@thismail.com>
writes

Post by Gail
Dear Phil,

Post by phil collin
Bearing in mind we're talking about a pre solo pilot who asked for tips
on when to flare I think we can leave the scare stories on all the
nearly accidents just waiting out there for you don't you?

I completely agree.
And I sincerely urge that 'Surfer' discusses all of this with his
instructors.

Yes, she is discussing this with her instructors, it just helps
sometimes to get another viewpoint. Part of the problem is that we have
had so much flying weather that we are short on briefings, another is
flying with too many different instructors and so getting a lot of
chopping and changing. And yes, it was *just* tips on how to tell what
point to start flaring I was after, as the rest I know will sort itself
out mostly when I can relax a bit about the flare - or roundout to use
glider-speak. :)

Anyway, thanks to all for their contributions.

[Gail]

Post by Surfer!

Post by Gail
And I sincerely urge that 'Surfer' discusses all of this with his
instructors.

Yes, she is discussing this with her instructors,

my apologies.

G

[Surfer!]

In message <e6rcaj$86k$***@news.ox.ac.uk>, Gail <***@thismail.com>
writes

Post by Gail

Post by Surfer!

Post by Gail
And I sincerely urge that 'Surfer' discusses all of this with his
instructors.

Yes, she is discussing this with her instructors,

my apologies.

You couldn't tell from my previous post or handle so no need to
apologise - gliding seems to be mostly a male hobby, I imagine power
flight is the same as well. So BTW is dinghy sailing.

Still, longer legs would make an AS-K21 more comfortable - and most men
have longer legs than most women!

[Gail]

Post by Surfer!
You couldn't tell from my previous post or handle so no need to
apologise - gliding seems to be mostly a male hobby, I imagine power
flight is the same as well. So BTW is dinghy sailing.

So... the outdoor type eh!?

Post by Surfer!
Still, longer legs would make an AS-K21 more comfortable - and most men
have longer legs than most women!

And a little short thing too... ;)

So where do you fly?

And what's the significance of 'Surfer'? does this mean you Surf too?


Gail.

[Surfer!]

In message <e6rl77$bno$***@news.ox.ac.uk>, Gail <***@thismail.com>
writes

Post by Gail

Post by Surfer!
You couldn't tell from my previous post or handle so no need to
apologise - gliding seems to be mostly a male hobby, I imagine power
flight is the same as well. So BTW is dinghy sailing.

So... the outdoor type eh!?

I guess so. In the past I've climbed (with ropes) & caved, and I still
go walking from time to time. The dinghy sailing was what I was good at
though - Ladies champion for 9 years on the trot in the class I sailed
with best place of 5th in the nationals, 44 entered that year e.g. not
5th out of 5!

Post by Gail

Post by Surfer!
Still, longer legs would make an AS-K21 more comfortable - and most men
have longer legs than most women!

And a little short thing too... ;)

Yes. Bah humbug!

But the DG 505 is just fine, and no messing around with seat backs or
cushions either. :)

We have an instructor with the opposite problem - he flies without a
parachute.

Post by Gail
So where do you fly?

Portmoak. Ridges galore - so long as the wind is anything from SW
through to NE we can launch, get on a ridge & soar.

Post by Gail
And what's the significance of 'Surfer'? does this mean you Surf too?

Yes - I surf the Internet! I also enjoy swimming in surf, so long as
it's not too tall.

[Gail]

Post by Gail
So... the outdoor type eh!?

I guess so. ...Ladies champion for 9 years on the trot in the class I

sailed

with best place of 5th in the nationals, 44 entered that year e.g. not
5th out of 5!

hmmm..and competative! You'll do well in this sport. The blokes love a
challenge.

Post by Gail

Post by Surfer!
Still, longer legs would make an AS-K21 more comfortable - and most men
have longer legs than most women!

And a little short thing too... ;)

Yes. Bah humbug!

Never mind, small things and packages eh!? Easily remided with seat backs,
cushions and additional weights.
..And look on the bright side, at least your not too tall.

But the DG 505 is just fine, and no messing around with seat backs or
cushions either. :)

cool. I like the 505, it's a nice aeroplane.

We have an instructor with the opposite problem - he flies without a
parachute.

as opposed to lopping off 6 inches of ankle you mean... hehe

Post by Gail
So where do you fly?

Portmoak. Ridges galore - so long as the wind is anything from SW
through to NE we can launch, get on a ridge & soar.

Oh Cool, Scotland! I know PM. I've not been there yet but hoping to some
time in the near future. I've flown at Aboyne a couple of times. I'm with
Oxford Uni GC.

Post by Gail
And what's the significance of 'Surfer'? does this mean you Surf too?

Yes - I surf the Internet! I also enjoy swimming in surf, so long as
it's not too tall.

Love it. I grew up with the sea. I often think that air and water display
very similar fluid properties.
I suppose it's why I found learning to soar thermals really easy. It was a
simple case of transposing pockets of warm water into pockets of warm air.
They don't like to mix in water either.

any way, perhaps we'll see you at PM some time, when OUGC decides on an
expedition I imagine.

Gail

PS. I probably shouldn't say this but there's some nice footage of PM on the
UK Smokin' 2004 DVD if you can get to see it. The instructors don't like it
because it gives student pilots bad ideas. But it's good fun.

see ya!

[Surfer!]

In message <e6rrv2$e77$***@news.ox.ac.uk>, Gail <***@thismail.com>
writes

Post by Surfer!

Post by Gail
So... the outdoor type eh!?

I guess so. ...Ladies champion for 9 years on the trot in the class I

sailed

with best place of 5th in the nationals, 44 entered that year e.g. not
5th out of 5!

hmmm..and competative! You'll do well in this sport. The blokes love a
challenge.

So do I - and beating the blokes at sailing was usually very rewarding
as an awful lot of them took the hump at a mere weak (not! [1]) female
finishing in front of them.

[1] I used to do weight training twice a week!

Post by Surfer!

Post by Gail

Post by Surfer!
Still, longer legs would make an AS-K21 more comfortable - and most

men

Post by Gail

Post by Surfer!
have longer legs than most women!

And a little short thing too... ;)

Yes. Bah humbug!

Never mind, small things and packages eh!? Easily remided with seat backs,
cushions and additional weights.

Sadly no need to the additional weights - and there never would have
been. My correct weight would be just over 10 st, as it is I am about 3
dress sizes too large...

Post by Surfer!
..And look on the bright side, at least your not too tall.

Indeed - I can wear a parachute which is nothing else makes the seat
more comfortable!

Post by Surfer!

But the DG 505 is just fine, and no messing around with seat backs or
cushions either. :)

cool. I like the 505, it's a nice aeroplane.

We have an instructor with the opposite problem - he flies without a
parachute.

as opposed to lopping off 6 inches of ankle you mean... hehe

Now that would be rather messy don't you think? Still, it would make
him a candidate for flying WA1 - a K21 with factory modes to allow
paraplegics to fly it, so long as they have normal upper body strength.
:)

Post by Surfer!

Post by Gail
So where do you fly?

Portmoak. Ridges galore - so long as the wind is anything from SW
through to NE we can launch, get on a ridge & soar.

Oh Cool, Scotland! I know PM. I've not been there yet but hoping to some
time in the near future. I've flown at Aboyne a couple of times. I'm with
Oxford Uni GC.

We have lots of visitors. We even have wireless Internet access in the
Clubhouse so long as you have a laptop with a Wifi card!

Post by Surfer!

Post by Gail
And what's the significance of 'Surfer'? does this mean you Surf too?

Yes - I surf the Internet! I also enjoy swimming in surf, so long as
it's not too tall.

Love it. I grew up with the sea. I often think that air and water display
very similar fluid properties.

Now I live in Fife the sea is not too far away - neither are sea
breezes....

<snip>

Post by Surfer!
PS. I probably shouldn't say this but there's some nice footage of PM on the
UK Smokin' 2004 DVD if you can get to see it. The instructors don't like it
because it gives student pilots bad ideas. But it's good fun.

Now where do I get hold of that DVD - Google ain't helping? Gotta see
if any of the instructors I know & 'love' are there!

[Stefan]

Post by Surfer!
Yes, she is discussing this with her instructors, it just helps
sometimes to get another viewpoint.

Sometimes, yes, but in this case: No!

As you said, it's a pre-solo student, and as such she should discuss her
problems with her instructors and with nobody else, because those
instructors know her, have actually seen her flying and (as hopefully
competent instrucors) can judge what her problems are. Better than some
unknown strangers in cyberspace anyway, who don't even know which type
of glider she's flying.

Post by Surfer!
flying with too many different instructors

Personally I found it very helpful to fly with different instructors.
Didn't nessecairily speed things up, but definitely gave me a braoder view.

Stefan

[Surfer!]

Post by Stefan

Post by Surfer!
Yes, she is discussing this with her instructors, it just helps
sometimes to get another viewpoint.

That was me wot wrote the above...

Post by Stefan
Sometimes, yes, but in this case: No!
As you said, it's a pre-solo student, and as such she should discuss
her problems with her instructors and with nobody else, because those
instructors know her, have actually seen her flying and (as hopefully
competent instrucors) can judge what her problems are. Better than some
unknown strangers in cyberspace anyway, who don't even know which type
of glider she's flying.

There's a lot of discussion in the launch caravan with last year's
intake giving their view often all to forcefully to this year's intake
at times. I'm certainly not going to go away and do something my
instructor is not expecting - but like I said, hearing other people's
thoughts can be useful. BTW the glider is an AS-K21 though I'm not sure
it makes much difference for the actual moment at which to start the
roundout.

Also, I could be reading all the books about how to do it, and there are
probably various on-line resources I haven't found each with their own
description. So, not providing input here doesn't prevent anyone with
an enquiring mind finding plenty elsewhere which might or might not be
good...

Post by Stefan

Post by Surfer!
flying with too many different instructors

Personally I found it very helpful to fly with different instructors.
Didn't nessecairily speed things up, but definitely gave me a braoder view.

Sometimes it helps, sometimes it hinders. Like getting other view on
the internet or from a book... :)

[Gail]

Post by Stefan
Sometimes, yes, but in this case: No!
As you said, it's a pre-solo student, and as such she should discuss her
problems with her instructors and with nobody else, because those
instructors know her, have actually seen her flying and (as hopefully
competent instrucors) can judge what her problems are. Better than some
unknown strangers in cyberspace anyway, who don't even know which type
of glider she's flying.

K21 apparently!


If she's an ab initio, she likely to be flying a two seat ship. Most clubs
train on K13s, K21s, twin Astirs or DG 500s for example. It's not a too
difficult a leap of imagination to figure it out!

Post by Stefan

Post by Surfer!
flying with too many different instructors

Personally I found it very helpful to fly with different instructors.
Didn't nessecairily speed things up, but definitely gave me a braoder view.

In my experience instructors are like school teachers. There good ones and
there are...shall we say, not so good ones. One learns most from the good
teachers and not so much from the not so good ones. The thing that does
annoy me somewhat though, is that some of them imagine that being an
instructor gives them an automatic right to be bl**dy arrogant!

The best instructors in my limited experience, are often professional pilots
either civilian or military. They're generally quietly confident, never
arrogant and never condescending. The crap ones in my experience, tend to be
all of those things.

G

[Surfer!]

In message <e6rmfc$c6h$***@news.ox.ac.uk>, Gail <***@thismail.com>
writes

Post by Gail

Post by Stefan
Sometimes, yes, but in this case: No!
As you said, it's a pre-solo student, and as such she should discuss her
problems with her instructors and with nobody else, because those
instructors know her, have actually seen her flying and (as hopefully
competent instrucors) can judge what her problems are. Better than some
unknown strangers in cyberspace anyway, who don't even know which type
of glider she's flying.

K21 apparently!
If she's an ab initio, she likely to be flying a two seat ship. Most clubs
train on K13s, K21s, twin Astirs or DG 500s for example. It's not a too
difficult a leap of imagination to figure it out!

And do these various ships all handle in a fairly similar way? That's
certainly the case with all multi-seat 'ships' used to teach dinghy
sailing.

The Club also has a DG 505 - I guess similar to a DG 500. Everyone of
us ab initios that has flown in it has loved it for it's smoothness and
responsiveness.

Post by Gail

Post by Stefan

Post by Surfer!
flying with too many different instructors

Personally I found it very helpful to fly with different instructors.
Didn't nessecairily speed things up, but definitely gave me a braoder

view.
In my experience instructors are like school teachers. There good ones and
there are...shall we say, not so good ones. One learns most from the good
teachers and not so much from the not so good ones. The thing that does
annoy me somewhat though, is that some of them imagine that being an
instructor gives them an automatic right to be bl**dy arrogant!
The best instructors in my limited experience, are often professional pilots
either civilian or military. They're generally quietly confident, never
arrogant and never condescending. The crap ones in my experience, tend to be
all of those things.

Some of it is down to personality. Some people like a very didactic
style of teaching, other prefer a more experiential model, some of us
loved a good rough ride at the start when it was marginal for flying
(for anyone!) and others hated it. Some of us find it helps to get
overloaded with whatever the next thing is before we've quite mastered
the current thing as it helps us disengage brain from the current thing
and get on with it while we think about the next thing, others need to
get the current thing pretty solid before moving on to the next thing.
Some of us thrive on the idea of 'feel what's happening', others want to
have a more formal approach.

And, of course, many of us vary. Sometimes it helps to move on, other
times not. Also some days we fly well, other days it's rough. That
will be true for everyone of course, but as a novice the rough days are
really, really rough and probably rather more frequent as well.

Some of our best instructors are ex-forces, several others are ex-ATC,
but one is simply a glider bum - he started 15 years ago and has never
looked back! He is also an excellent instructor, at least for me, and
his real enthusiasm for the sport and commitment to getting us all in
the air is a huge asset for the club.

[Peter]

Post by Stefan
As you said, it's a pre-solo student, and as such she should discuss her
problems with her instructors and with nobody else, because those
instructors know her, have actually seen her flying and (as hopefully
competent instrucors) can judge what her problems are.

Speaking about flight training generally, I am not sure I would agree.

A lot of instructors are noticeably sub-optimal.

[Dan Grey]

Post by Gail

Post by phil collin
As to airbrakes, once you've got them set to maintain your landing
reference point leave them where they are.

...assuming you don't encounter any wind sheer or turbulence this should
work fine.
if you do encounter wind-sheer and do nothing to account for it you'll
plummet like a rock and at best undershoot or at worst, crash - I've seen it
happen.
G

Your approach speed should be at least 50kts, and more (up to 65kts) if
it's windy. This will give you adequate safety margin in the event of
shear; and indeed you should not adjust the airbrakes after setting up
the approach.

For rounding out, as the ground becomes close look up the field - look
at the horizon over the nose of the glider. Gently and steadily apply
back pressure to the stick to bring the glider into a path just above
the ground. Keep the stick moving back (but not so fast that you rise
again). Eventually the glider will run out of speed and stall gently
onto the ground. You should feel the tail skid touch down first. Keep
the stick held all the way back until stationary.

HTH,


Dan

[Surfer!]

Post by Surfer!
On topic AFAIK, even though it seems to be mostly about powered draft
here. Sorry if it's not!
Anyway - the gliding is going fairly well, lots of stuff signed off
including winch launches, but landing is being 'interesting' in terms
of seeing when to start the round-out - the airbrake stuff will come
fairly easily except at present my mind is a bit distracted worrying
about the round-out. Does anyone have any 'handy hints' they care to
share?

Thanks for al the ideas. Having done a decent round out, and a decent
circuit (different flights though, not the same one!) I'll give them all
a read and have a think about it before flying again tomorrow - though
of course the wind might change so it's not circuits but bashing the
hill and doing stall drill!

BTW the decent circuit was the one where the instructor decided to say
nothing and let me get on with it...

[Simon Hobson]

Post by Surfer!
BTW the decent circuit was the one where the instructor decided to say
nothing and let me get on with it...

I know the feeling, I've had occasions when I've come close to telling the
instructor to "SHUT THE F**K UP !"

It's another of those things that marks out a good instructor - they know
when to keep the patter going, and when to just shut up and let you get on
with it.

[Surfer!]

Post by Simon Hobson

Post by Surfer!
BTW the decent circuit was the one where the instructor decided to say
nothing and let me get on with it...

I know the feeling, I've had occasions when I've come close to telling the
instructor to "SHUT THE F**K UP !"
It's another of those things that marks out a good instructor - they know
when to keep the patter going, and when to just shut up and let you get on
with it.

We were discussing learning (probably in general) this morning -
obviously all instructors have their own style, as do all learners and
we all hope that the right instructor & student end up flying (or
whatever) with each other. Also, a skilled instructor will have a
variety of teaching styles and will be able to vary their style
according to the needs of the student.

Then I got to wondering if any work has ever been done in gliding, or
any other technical sport, to identify the basic different learning and
instructional styles. I guess that if the answer is no, there are a few
PhD and MSc degrees for such work...

BTW I'm not talking about flying aptitude tests here, but ones that
identify what style of instruction will best allow the student to fulfil
whatever their potential is - or is not.

[Peter]

Post by Surfer!
Then I got to wondering if any work has ever been done in gliding, or
any other technical sport, to identify the basic different learning and
instructional styles. I guess that if the answer is no, there are a few
PhD and MSc degrees for such work...

These days, you could easily pick up a PhD doing a case study on
something like this (at most Uk universities though probably not the
top ones).

I have never done gliding but I suspect that most instructors are old
timers, not the ATPL hour builders that tend to dominate certified GA
PPL-level instruction.

This should be a great advantage, but there is still the business of
having to adjust one's instructional style to different punters. Or
does gliding have less diversity in the personality of the punters? I
don't know. In normal GA you get some who are just messing about, some
who are doing it as a personal challenge, and some who want to fly to
places.

[Surfer!]

Post by Peter

Post by Surfer!
Then I got to wondering if any work has ever been done in gliding, or
any other technical sport, to identify the basic different learning and
instructional styles. I guess that if the answer is no, there are a few
PhD and MSc degrees for such work...

These days, you could easily pick up a PhD doing a case study on
something like this (at most Uk universities though probably not the
top ones).

Ah - so roll on being able to have PhD as well as BSc after my name -
except that my first degree is in Computing, so I'm not an
educationalist or a social scientist. I wonder if that matters? :)

Post by Peter
I have never done gliding but I suspect that most instructors are old
timers, not the ATPL hour builders that tend to dominate certified GA
PPL-level instruction.

We don't (I think) have anyone learning gliding as a step to an ATPL,
but the guy I was going to fly with today (but it rained) is a
professional pilot for BMI and apparently he's not the only commercial
pilot who glides as a hobby. At present there is one PPL I know of
converting to gliding.

Post by Peter
This should be a great advantage, but there is still the business of
having to adjust one's instructional style to different punters. Or
does gliding have less diversity in the personality of the punters? I
don't know. In normal GA you get some who are just messing about, some
who are doing it as a personal challenge, and some who want to fly to
places.

I'd say there is diversity in gliding. Personally it's a challenge, but
I've not spoken enough to my fellow ab initios to find out their
motivations. However it's clear that some of us are much more driven to
get solo ASAP than others are, and the same applies to last years group
who are flying solo and working towards their bronze badges. Maybe we
are all drawn to the light of flying XC - Scotland looks wonderful from
the air, has much less in the way of ATC restrictions than England, and
can have great wave flying through the winter months. Oh - and we all
look 2 stone heavier when kitted up to fly in cold weather...

In fact it's not just winter when there can be great conditions. One of
the guys from the club flew a 750k in late May, which earned him
mega-points on the XC ladder as it was both declared & completed.

[Peter]

Post by Surfer!
I'd say there is diversity in gliding. Personally it's a challenge, but
I've not spoken enough to my fellow ab initios to find out their
motivations. However it's clear that some of us are much more driven to
get solo ASAP than others are, and the same applies to last years group
who are flying solo and working towards their bronze badges. Maybe we
are all drawn to the light of flying XC - Scotland looks wonderful from
the air, has much less in the way of ATC restrictions than England, and
can have great wave flying through the winter months. Oh - and we all
look 2 stone heavier when kitted up to fly in cold weather...
In fact it's not just winter when there can be great conditions. One of
the guys from the club flew a 750k in late May, which earned him
mega-points on the XC ladder as it was both declared & completed.

I think the gradual progression, with "medals" at each stage, is a
mega advantage of gliding over the fixed-wing PPL.

This is written from the perspective of someone who started flying
only in July 2000, but of the people I learnt with I see barely one
still flying.

The PPL has a big problem which is that there is no progression, well
none that people can follow. You finish the PPL, and you might do the
night rating (not many people want to fly at night), or the IMC rating
(not many people can get their hands on a plane that's up to any real
IFR), and the IR (FAA or JAA) is much harder than any of the
foregoing. In reality, most new PPL holders feel like standing on a
cliff.

Whereas in gliding, it seems to me, you can just get better and
collect more medals, which keeps people motivated. You don't have to
spend £250,000 on a IFR glider at a particular stage, in order to
progress past that stage :)

I regularly fly with a glider instructor; however he has given up
trying to get me to use the rudder :)

[Surfer!]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Peter]

Post by Surfer!
Oooh! So there is lots of yaw string pointing in funny directions

Not really, it's a TB20 and at cruise speeds there is very little yaw.
This isn't unusual for fixed wing powered stuff, although some (I am
told) do need rudder to be used.

Back to the multiple stages, there have been many proposals over the
years to add "new skills" sort of modules to the PPL, but AFAIK none
of them would have given the pilot additional official privileges. So,
few are interested in doing them.

[Ross Younger]

Post by Peter
Back to the multiple stages, there have been many proposals over the
years to add "new skills" sort of modules to the PPL, but AFAIK none
of them would have given the pilot additional official privileges. So,
few are interested in doing them.

AOPA UK have created a scheme they call Wings, which is intended
to encourage pilots to tour, build up experience and enhance their
skills through the existing patchwork of ratings and complex features.
Details on http://www.aopa.co.uk/newsfromaopa/wings.pdf ; however, from
the figures in the AOPA mag, the take-up doesn't seem to be great so far.


Ross

[Peter]

Post by Ross Younger
AOPA UK have created a scheme they call Wings, which is intended
to encourage pilots to tour, build up experience and enhance their
skills through the existing patchwork of ratings and complex features.
Details on http://www.aopa.co.uk/newsfromaopa/wings.pdf ; however, from
the figures in the AOPA mag, the take-up doesn't seem to be great so far.

"For the Platinum Wings Award the applicant should be able to
demonstrate that a minimum of three different types of approved
seminar have been attended, two for the Gold and one for Silver.
Currently approved Seminars are: CAA Safety Evening, GASCo Flight
Safety Forum, AOPA Flight Instructor Refresher Seminar
(non-instructors may attend for one day), Military Civil Air Safety
Day, or any other Seminar previously approved by AOPA"

Now I see why people turning up to those CAA safety evenings are so
keen to get their logbooks stamped :)

The Wings requirements are curious, e.g

"A flight of total length greater than 500 nm with at least three
intermediate landings OR
A flight of total length greater than 400 nm with a sea crossing (>20
nm) and at least three intermediate landings."

If I was going 500nm I would do it in one leg. Unless pottering about
with plenty of spare time, one does everything possible to avoid
unnecessary intermediate landings :)

[Ross Younger]

Post by Peter
Now I see why people turning up to those CAA safety evenings are so
keen to get their logbooks stamped :)

Yes, but David Cockburn has been stamping logbooks for longer than Wings
have been around...

Post by Peter
The Wings requirements are curious

They are slightly odd. I've heard rumours that AOPA are flexible over
the exact nature of what's claimed for the awards, provided it's of a
similar calibre to what's in the notes.

Post by Peter
If I was going 500nm I would do it in one leg. Unless pottering about
with plenty of spare time, one does everything possible to avoid
unnecessary intermediate landings :)

I'd love to do a 500nm leg, but some of the club a/c I have access to
would be hard pushed to do even 300nm without refuelling... That, plus
a five hour flight gets a little wearing on the ol' posterior...


Ross

[Peter]

Post by Ross Younger

Post by Peter
Now I see why people turning up to those CAA safety evenings are so
keen to get their logbooks stamped :)

Yes, but David Cockburn has been stamping logbooks for longer than Wings
have been around...

I don't doubt it :) Little in GA has changed since he was born.

Post by Ross Younger

Post by Peter
The Wings requirements are curious

They are slightly odd. I've heard rumours that AOPA are flexible over
the exact nature of what's claimed for the awards, provided it's of a
similar calibre to what's in the notes.

Not suprising, since the scheme is worthless, in the sense that the
pilot doesn't get any tangible privileges.

When my logbook goes past 500 hours, or 1000 hours, or whatever, I
might get a warm feeling inside that I have managed to go to all those
places, but that's all it is. One's insurance doesn't come down.

Post by Ross Younger

Post by Peter
If I was going 500nm I would do it in one leg. Unless pottering about
with plenty of spare time, one does everything possible to avoid
unnecessary intermediate landings :)

I'd love to do a 500nm leg, but some of the club a/c I have access to
would be hard pushed to do even 300nm without refuelling... That, plus
a five hour flight gets a little wearing on the ol' posterior...

You also need one of those plastic watering-can things with a screw
top :) They are excellent! I never leave home without one.

[Richard Herring]

Post by Peter

Post by Surfer!
Oooh! So there is lots of yaw string pointing in funny directions

Not really, it's a TB20 and at cruise speeds there is very little yaw.
This isn't unusual for fixed wing powered stuff, although some (I am
told) do need rudder to be used.

And the difference isn't really a binary one between powered a/c and
gliders, as that website appears to suggest - it's how well the ailerons
are designed to avoid adverse yaw, and how much slip-roll coupling, and
other aerodynamic subtleties.

Post by Peter
Back to the multiple stages, there have been many proposals over the
years to add "new skills" sort of modules to the PPL, but AFAIK none
of them would have given the pilot additional official privileges. So,
few are interested in doing them.

[Ian K]

I will assume you have had demonstrated to you, and you understand, the use
of the airbrakes.
On the approach, use the brakes to keep the referance ( or aiming ) point in
the correct place. When you are about 2 elephants high, transffer yor line
of site to the end of the field, and gently move the stick back, trying to
keep the glider flying for as long as possible.
It all sounds totaly impossable, but you will in fact pick it up very
quickly.
Relax and enjoy the problem

Post by Surfer!
On topic AFAIK, even though it seems to be mostly about powered draft
here. Sorry if it's not!
Anyway - the gliding is going fairly well, lots of stuff signed off
including winch launches, but landing is being 'interesting' in terms of
seeing when to start the round-out - the airbrake stuff will come fairly
easily except at present my mind is a bit distracted worrying about the
round-out. Does anyone have any 'handy hints' they care to share?
TIA
--
Surfer!
Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net

[Surfer!]

Post by Ian K
When you are about 2 elephants high

It's judging those elephants / buses that's hard! Plus elephants come
in different sizes. :)

However it will come, I know, and I might be able to manage some flying
during the day in 4 weeks time. It might be one of those things that's
suddenly usually so glaringly obvious one wonders why one ever had much
trouble with it...

(gybing a dinghy in strong winds is like that!)

Anyway, good flying on the ridge last night with good turns just about
all the time, an over-exciting experience with one of the practise
stalls, a fair circuit until I let the speed drop at which point it
unravelled fast...