Discussion:
N651KC
(too old to reply)
jan olieslagers
2008-10-11 16:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Anyone knows the whereabouts of this PA28? It gave me the fright of my
life this afternoon at EBHN Hoevenen, by not landing on the runway
but on the grass next to it - where I was waiting for take-off...
I hurried for safety only just in time, he missed my ultralight
by no more than 50 meters. Pffffiew!

(pilot had an English accent on the radio, that's why I ask here)
Andy R
2008-10-13 07:14:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by jan olieslagers
Anyone knows the whereabouts of this PA28? It gave me the fright of my
life this afternoon at EBHN Hoevenen, by not landing on the runway
but on the grass next to it - where I was waiting for take-off...
I hurried for safety only just in time, he missed my ultralight
by no more than 50 meters. Pffffiew!
This sounds like a bit of delayed air-rage.

If you discover the whereabouts of the a/c what do you propose to do?

I suggets an MOR or maybe a chat with the operator of EBHN might be the best
way forward. Locating the a/c and remonstrating with its owner is unlikely
to produce anything positive.

Rgds

Andy R
jan olieslagers
2008-10-13 16:09:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy R
Post by jan olieslagers
Anyone knows the whereabouts of this PA28? It gave me the fright of my
life this afternoon at EBHN Hoevenen, by not landing on the runway
but on the grass next to it - where I was waiting for take-off...
I hurried for safety only just in time, he missed my ultralight
by no more than 50 meters. Pffffiew!
This sounds like a bit of delayed air-rage.
If you discover the whereabouts of the a/c what do you propose to do?
I suggets an MOR or maybe a chat with the operator of EBHN might be the best
way forward. Locating the a/c and remonstrating with its owner is unlikely
to produce anything positive.
Andy,

A couple of hours after posting I realised for myself
what you suggested: delayed air rage, added to "post-fright
decompression". My posting was not very "politically correct"
and not productive either. Apologies!

I did hope the pilot would hear my story, either by reading
here of from hearsay, and might offer some excuse/explanation.

But as for the EBHN operator, no hope for action/reaction there!

Thank you for showing the right way.
KA
Andy R
2008-10-14 07:51:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by jan olieslagers
Post by Andy R
Post by jan olieslagers
Anyone knows the whereabouts of this PA28? It gave me the fright of my
life this afternoon at EBHN Hoevenen, by not landing on the runway
but on the grass next to it - where I was waiting for take-off...
I hurried for safety only just in time, he missed my ultralight
by no more than 50 meters. Pffffiew!
This sounds like a bit of delayed air-rage.
If you discover the whereabouts of the a/c what do you propose to do?
I suggets an MOR or maybe a chat with the operator of EBHN might be the
best way forward. Locating the a/c and remonstrating with its owner is
unlikely to produce anything positive.
Andy,
A couple of hours after posting I realised for myself
what you suggested: delayed air rage, added to "post-fright
decompression". My posting was not very "politically correct"
and not productive either. Apologies!
I did hope the pilot would hear my story, either by reading
here of from hearsay, and might offer some excuse/explanation.
But as for the EBHN operator, no hope for action/reaction there!
Thank you for showing the right way.
No, this is the right way, then you wouldn't have to bother tracking him
down:-)

http://www.wonderland.org.nz/rasa.htm

Andy R
jan olieslagers
2008-10-13 17:37:09 UTC
Permalink
I suggest an MOR
NB what's an MOR?
Ross Younger
2008-10-13 21:42:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by jan olieslagers
NB what's an MOR?
Mandatory Occurrence Report. A report made to the CAA about an
Occurrence, which is not a reportable Accident or Incident, but where
the safety of operation was or could have been endangered or which could
have led to an unsafe condition.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP382.PDF explains how it works in the UK
(appendix B lists the sorts of things which make Occurrences). AFAIK the
relevant EC directives only mandate this sort of reporting scheme for
air transport operations, but in at least the UK even GA is encouraged
to make reports where appropriate.


Ross
--
Ross Younger news#***@crazyscot.com (if N fails, try N+1)
Elts
2008-10-15 16:45:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by jan olieslagers
I suggest an MOR
NB what's an MOR?
Jan,
Surely yr not serious?? Suggest you look at the EASA website mate....
E
jan olieslagers
2008-10-15 16:55:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elts
Post by jan olieslagers
I suggest an MOR
NB what's an MOR?
Jan,
Surely yr not serious?? Suggest you look at the EASA website mate....
E
(blushing)
Honestly sir, I was.
Don't forget I'm a poor ULM pilot student, who only soloed last Sunday.
Theory & legal exam is still several months away, and with the present
rate of change in legislation I'm not in a hurry to attack that syllabus.

But apparently you are better informed than my poor self,
so would you kindly explain?

Must I really understand this MOR is MANDATORY i.e. am I
obliged to file such a document for this type of incident?
If so, to whom? My own national administration or that of
the (supposedly) offending pilot?
In the latter case, I think the effort utterly wasted:
I can never imagine the FAA looking into some slight incident
in far-away under-developed wayward Europe...

TIA,
KA
Peter
2008-10-15 17:46:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by jan olieslagers
Anyone knows the whereabouts of this PA28? It gave me the fright of my
life this afternoon at EBHN Hoevenen, by not landing on the runway
but on the grass next to it - where I was waiting for take-off...
I hurried for safety only just in time, he missed my ultralight
by no more than 50 meters. Pffffiew!
(pilot had an English accent on the radio, that's why I ask here)
Are you serious? 50m is above five times the wingspan. This is
nothing.

If he landed on the grass, he must have done that for a reason. Was he
given instructions on where to land? One could ask many other
questions.

Did you speak to him afterwards and if not why not?

I had an incident a few years ago when I was doing a night landing,
and on short final saw a bright light which turned out to be a
helicopter hovering right on the approach path. This was an ATC
airport and ATC didn't know anything about the helicopter. I then went
to speak to the pilot as he was getting out of the helicopter (after
he landed) but he ran off, saying he was in a hurry. He was an
instructor, too. I didn't file an MOR or anything else because, as the
english saying goes, one should not sh*t on one's own doorstep.
Airfield politics can be big problem in the UK. But I think he learnt
a lesson too. And I almost never fly at night anyway.
jan olieslagers
2008-10-15 23:16:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
Post by jan olieslagers
Anyone knows the whereabouts of this PA28? It gave me the fright of my
life this afternoon at EBHN Hoevenen, by not landing on the runway
but on the grass next to it - where I was waiting for take-off...
I hurried for safety only just in time, he missed my ultralight
by no more than 50 meters. Pffffiew!
(pilot had an English accent on the radio, that's why I ask here)
Are you serious? 50m is above five times the wingspan. This is
nothing.
Well if I said 50 meters that was a large estimation. Checking on
satelite photo, the whole aerodrome is not wider that a 100 meters or
so, he must have been much closer than 50 meters. My instructor did push
me to hurry and he's not a chap easily frightened - like most
instructors, I think.
Post by Peter
If he landed on the grass, he must have done that for a reason. Was he
given instructions on where to land? One could ask many other
questions.
No, he wasn't given any kind of instructions. EBHN has no permanent
radio operator on the ground, its frequency is clearly marked as "air to
air". NB "landing on the grass" is a somewhat dubious expression, EBHN
has no hard runway. If he landed next to the runway it must really have
been by missing it, I can't imagine any reason for doing this
deliberately. The place is clearly visible on satelite images, runway 15
was in use at the time.
Post by Peter
Did you speak to him afterwards and if not why not?
No, never got a chance. The plane left within an hour after landing, I
was doing training circuits all the while. He violated local regulations
again when departing, by wanting to take off during paradrop.
Post by Peter
I had an incident a few years ago when I was doing a night landing,
and on short final saw a bright light which turned out to be a
helicopter hovering right on the approach path. This was an ATC
airport and ATC didn't know anything about the helicopter. I then went
to speak to the pilot as he was getting out of the helicopter (after
he landed) but he ran off, saying he was in a hurry. He was an
instructor, too. I didn't file an MOR or anything else because, as the
english saying goes, one should not sh*t on one's own doorstep.
Airfield politics can be big problem in the UK. But I think he learnt
a lesson too. And I almost never fly at night anyway.
Agreed about keeping one's doorstep clean... As I was flying with an
instructor, I left further action at his discretion, my post was mostly
from curiosity - and, as someone rightly guessed, for post-incident
decompression.

PS I've had my part of trouble with helo's too. Some of these people
seem to think rules are only for the poor...

KA
unknown
2008-10-15 17:53:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by jan olieslagers
Anyone knows the whereabouts of this PA28? It gave me the fright of my
life this afternoon at EBHN Hoevenen, by not landing on the runway
but on the grass next to it - where I was waiting for take-off...
I hurried for safety only just in time, he missed my ultralight
by no more than 50 meters. Pffffiew!
(pilot had an English accent on the radio, that's why I ask here)
I suspect he had an American accent. Finding the owner of the aircraft
is trivially simple - use Google, if you must. The owner is listed as
being an American air-taxi service.

You could also spot how it has moved about recently, being spotted
around Greenland, Iceland, Scotland.
jan olieslagers
2008-10-15 23:00:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by jan olieslagers
Anyone knows the whereabouts of this PA28? It gave me the fright of my
life this afternoon at EBHN Hoevenen, by not landing on the runway
but on the grass next to it - where I was waiting for take-off...
I hurried for safety only just in time, he missed my ultralight
by no more than 50 meters. Pffffiew!
(pilot had an English accent on the radio, that's why I ask here)
I suspect he had an American accent. Finding the owner of the aircraft
is trivially simple - use Google, if you must. The owner is listed as
being an American air-taxi service.
You could also spot how it has moved about recently, being spotted
around Greenland, Iceland, Scotland.
Yes, I did find reports on its ferry flight. But its registered owner in
Delaware looked more like an off-shore operation to me. I took this for
one of the many US-registered planes used for private IFR flying in
Europe. Or how do you explain it was spotted repeatedly in Europe but
never in the US?

As for the accent: trust me to distinguish UK English from American!
Though of course one can never be absolutely sure.
KA
Peter
2008-10-16 21:08:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by jan olieslagers
Or how do you explain it was spotted repeatedly in Europe but
never in the US?
Maybe American plane spotters are not as diligent as the UK ones?

The UK ones must be the best in the world ;) Type any UK-based tail
number into google and you get a great catalogue of movements...
unknown
2008-10-16 22:55:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
Post by jan olieslagers
Or how do you explain it was spotted repeatedly in Europe but
never in the US?
Maybe American plane spotters are not as diligent as the UK ones?
The UK ones must be the best in the world ;) Type any UK-based tail
number into google and you get a great catalogue of movements...
Yeah - they're famous as far away as Greece :)
--
"When once man has flown, he will walk the earth with his eyes turned skyward,
for where he has been, there he will long to return." -- Leonardo da Vinci.
Peter
2008-10-17 16:06:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Peter
Maybe American plane spotters are not as diligent as the UK ones?
The UK ones must be the best in the world ;) Type any UK-based tail
number into google and you get a great catalogue of movements...
Yeah - they're famous as far away as Greece :)
They should have tried Libya or Egypt ;)

x----------x
G Paleologopoulos
2008-10-18 09:36:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
Post by unknown
Post by Peter
Maybe American plane spotters are not as diligent as the UK ones?
The UK ones must be the best in the world ;) Type any UK-based tail
number into google and you get a great catalogue of movements...
Yeah - they're famous as far away as Greece :)
They should have tried Libya or Egypt ;)
x----------x
Thanks. Took the words right from my mouth (...keyboard..) !
jan olieslagers
2008-10-22 19:02:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by jan olieslagers
Anyone knows the whereabouts of this PA28? It gave me the fright of my
life this afternoon at EBHN Hoevenen, by not landing on the runway
but on the grass next to it - where I was waiting for take-off...
I hurried for safety only just in time, he missed my ultralight
by no more than 50 meters. Pffffiew!
(pilot had an English accent on the radio, that's why I ask here)
Hm. Unconfirmed rumour has it the bird is based at Antwerpen-Deurne EBAW
a lot closer than I expected. Seems I needn't have bothered all and
sundry across the various waters, apologies!

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