Historic aircraft crash at Shoreham

[Richard Townsend]

Report on the BBC:

WWII plane crashes near airshow

A plane taking part in an airshow has crashed, according police.

A spokesman for Shoreham Airshow in West Sussex confirmed the aircraft
- which is thought to be a World War II plane - went down in
countryside.

He said the accident happened away from the airfield on Saturday
afternoon and no spectators were hurt.

It is not clear how many people were on board the plane but the
spokesman described the accident, which happened one mile from the
airfield, as serious.

A thread on PPRuNe says it's a Hurricane.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3553371#post3553371

[Pd]

Post by Richard Townsend
WWII plane crashes near airshow
A plane taking part in an airshow has crashed, according police.
A thread on PPRuNe says it's a Hurricane.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3553371#post3553371

Very sad news.
Condolences to the family and friends.

[itsmeinnit]

Post by Richard Townsend
WWII plane crashes near airshow
A plane taking part in an airshow has crashed, according police.
A spokesman for Shoreham Airshow in West Sussex confirmed the aircraft
- which is thought to be a World War II plane - went down in
countryside.
He said the accident happened away from the airfield on Saturday
afternoon and no spectators were hurt.
It is not clear how many people were on board the plane but the
spokesman described the accident, which happened one mile from the
airfield, as serious.
A thread on PPRuNe says it's a Hurricane.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3553371#post3553371

From somewhere else, a link to a few pictures.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/***@N00/sets/72157602030692633/

I don't know the author.

[Mike Cawood, HND BIT]

Post by Richard Townsend
WWII plane crashes near airshow
A plane taking part in an airshow has crashed, according police.
A spokesman for Shoreham Airshow in West Sussex confirmed the aircraft
- which is thought to be a World War II plane - went down in
countryside.
He said the accident happened away from the airfield on Saturday
afternoon and no spectators were hurt.
It is not clear how many people were on board the plane but the
spokesman described the accident, which happened one mile from the
airfield, as serious.
A thread on PPRuNe says it's a Hurricane.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3553371#post3553371

Oh dear, now a Hurricane lost, in addition to the last flying Mosquito in
Britain & the last Vickers Varsity.
Regards Mike.

[Dave Eadsforth]

Post by Richard Townsend
WWII plane crashes near airshow
A plane taking part in an airshow has crashed, according police.
A spokesman for Shoreham Airshow in West Sussex confirmed the aircraft
- which is thought to be a World War II plane - went down in
countryside.
He said the accident happened away from the airfield on Saturday
afternoon and no spectators were hurt.
It is not clear how many people were on board the plane but the
spokesman described the accident, which happened one mile from the
airfield, as serious.
A thread on PPRuNe says it's a Hurricane.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3553371#post3553371

There was a short clip of the crash on TV last night. A fairly clear
situation it seems - although a report from the Board will be welcome in
due course. The machine started just about straight and level and then
did a half roll, followed by an attempted pull out (second half of a
'loop') but hit the ground before it completed. At no time did it
appear to be out of control, so probably no medical issues.

I suspect the pilot simply initiated a normal aerobatic manoeuvre but
was just a bit too low. It would be useful to know the context of the
manoeuvre - was the pilot in a particular phase of the 'dogfight' in
which this manoeuvre might have been okay under other circumstances?

All dogfights end up at ground level unless limits are set - but I don't
know what rules are set for such demonstrations. Could be interesting to
know.

A very sad event.

Cheers,

Dave

[Peter]

Post by Dave Eadsforth
All dogfights end up at ground level unless limits are set

Could you explain that, Dave? I know nuffing about aeros. Is this
tongue in cheek, or a real statement that in a dogfight the pilots
will eventually try to get low down to escape?

[Dave Eadsforth]

Post by Peter

Post by Dave Eadsforth
All dogfights end up at ground level unless limits are set

Could you explain that, Dave? I know nuffing about aeros. Is this
tongue in cheek, or a real statement that in a dogfight the pilots
will eventually try to get low down to escape?

No, not tongue in cheek, just looking at the way in which WWII fighters
perform. With every evasive manoeuvre that is performed there is a
strong likelihood of some height being lost. If the dogfight goes on
for long enough the aircraft will eventually get close to the ground.
It is a recurring feature of accounts I have read.

Cheers,

Dave

[Andy Hart]

Post by Dave Eadsforth
There was a short clip of the crash on TV last night. A fairly clear
situation it seems - although a report from the Board will be welcome in
due course. The machine started just about straight and level and then
did a half roll, followed by an attempted pull out (second half of a
'loop') but hit the ground before it completed.

The manoeuvre you describe (half roll and pullout in the second half of
a loop) is very dangerous and is specifically mentioned during aerobatic
training. It is one of the easiest ways to pull the wing off or to
seriously exceed VNE due to the entry speed, the entry speed of the
second half of a normal loop is very low.

The correct way to perform this type of manoeuvre is to climb during the
half roll to bleed off speed, it's then called a "half reverse cuban".

I doubt that the manoeuvre you describe was intended.

[Dave Eadsforth]

Post by Andy Hart

Post by Dave Eadsforth
There was a short clip of the crash on TV last night. A fairly clear
situation it seems - although a report from the Board will be welcome in
due course. The machine started just about straight and level and then
did a half roll, followed by an attempted pull out (second half of a
'loop') but hit the ground before it completed.

The manoeuvre you describe (half roll and pullout in the second half of
a loop) is very dangerous and is specifically mentioned during aerobatic
training. It is one of the easiest ways to pull the wing off or to
seriously exceed VNE due to the entry speed, the entry speed of the
second half of a normal loop is very low.

Agreed - painful memories of my own early aeros experience - and a
tribute to the builders of the aircraft I mishandled.

Post by Andy Hart
The correct way to perform this type of manoeuvre is to climb during the
half roll to bleed off speed, it's then called a "half reverse cuban".

There was no nose-up apparent in the clip.

Post by Andy Hart
I doubt that the manoeuvre you describe was intended.

You are right to suspect that, and had the manoeuvre looked in any way
untidy I would have agreed that it could have been entered
inadvertently. However, the aircraft rolled quite tidily 180 degrees
and stopped rotating, and then the nose was pulled down. There was
clearly back pressure on the control column all the way round as the
nose was coming up - it just did not have the height to complete. The
clip was taken from the side, and so it gave a pretty clear view. It
looked like a controlled manoeuvre all the way through, and I can't
think of a set of circumstances where the machine could have acted that
way and not been under control.

Cheers,

Dave

[Stefan]

Post by Dave Eadsforth

Post by Andy Hart
The correct way to perform this type of manoeuvre is to climb during the
half roll to bleed off speed, it's then called a "half reverse cuban".

There was no nose-up apparent in the clip.

You can also flick roll to inverted and then pull through. The entry
speed for a half flick is pretty low, and aditionally the flick itself
uses up much energy.

[Dave Eadsforth]

Post by Stefan

Post by Dave Eadsforth

Post by Andy Hart
The correct way to perform this type of manoeuvre is to climb during the
half roll to bleed off speed, it's then called a "half reverse cuban".

There was no nose-up apparent in the clip.

You can also flick roll to inverted and then pull through. The entry
speed for a half flick is pretty low, and aditionally the flick itself
uses up much energy.

It was not possible to gauge the airspeed from the clip (I imagine the
investigators will deduce that with a frame-by-frame analysis), but I
would assume an effective manoeuvring speed. The book says 210 mph to
enter a roll in a Hurricane, but if we assume that Brown intended the
half roll and pull out he may have entered at significantly less speed.

The roll was entered smoothly; a flick is easier in an aerobatic machine
with a short fuselage, but the Pilot's Notes for many WWII fighters
forbid flick manoeuvres - they stressed the tail section too much.

I suppose in hindsight one can quote Neil Williams on the subject of
display flying. He warns of the dangers of any manoeuvre that includes
passing through the vertical and most specifically of the 'Colosseum'
attitude where the manoeuvre that has been carried out safely one
hundred times before is done in less ideal circumstances in front of a
crowd. A competition aerobatic pilot flies with heights, speeds,
attitudes and minima built into his brain, but not every display pilot
does.

Cheers,

Dave

[Paul Sengupta]

It was flown by Brian Brown of Breighton. Wonderfully helpful chap.
He will be missed. Breighton won't be the same without him.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/3662494.stm