FBO or equivalent near Birmingham, UK

[Tom Ferris]

Hi all,
I got my FAA PPL ASEL almost 10 years ago in Maryland. I have done very
little flying with it since, due to university, job, women and
booze.....basically money.
I feel I need cheering up and the lovely weather we've had over the last
couple of days have had me looking at the Blue Skies and unlimited vis just
wishing to be flying again.
Does anyone know of anywhere around the Birmingham (England NOT US) area
that has the equivalent of an FBO? I haven't ever flown in the uk (other
than a gift flight in kent many years ago), so I'm not really sure on the
protocol. I realise that my license isn't valid under the JAR rules, or even
the CAA for that matter.
Has anyone done the "equivalency", or does this not exist? do I have to
retrain from scratch to fly a plane in the UK.
BTW, most of my flying was in a C152 Aerobat, and I have a few Multi hours
in a Baron.

Many thanks

[Andy Hawkins]

Hi,

Post by Tom Ferris
Does anyone know of anywhere around the Birmingham (England NOT US) area
that has the equivalent of an FBO? I haven't ever flown in the uk (other
than a gift flight in kent many years ago), so I'm not really sure on the
protocol. I realise that my license isn't valid under the JAR rules, or even
the CAA for that matter.

You could try Wolverhampton (Halfpenny Green), Wellesbourne, Coventry,
Tatenhill, Leicester or maybe even Gloucester. All of them should be within
an hour or so of Birmingham.

What are you looking to do?

Post by Tom Ferris
Has anyone done the "equivalency", or does this not exist? do I have to
retrain from scratch to fly a plane in the UK.
BTW, most of my flying was in a C152 Aerobat, and I have a few Multi hours
in a Baron.

Pretty sure you can fly an N reg aircraft on your FAA license in the UK.
Obviously a bit of training to get used to locl procedured might be a good
idea.

Andy

[Ross Younger]

Post by Tom Ferris
Does anyone know of anywhere around the Birmingham (England NOT US) area
that has the equivalent of an FBO?

I'm not aware of any clubs at Birmingham itself - it's unlikely
due to it being such a busy airport - but off the top of my head,
Coventry or Halfpenny Green (Wolverhampton) might be worth a look.
http://www.ukga.com/aerodrome/nearby?waypoint=5684 has a more
comprehensive map of airfields, although it's not clear from that map how
many of them offer training: you have to click through to the airfield
pages, then look to see if there are Links to any clubs resident there.

Post by Tom Ferris
Has anyone done the "equivalency", or does this not exist? do I have to
retrain from scratch to fly a plane in the UK.

The compendium document containing the current rules and regulations
regarding licensing is called LASORS and can be downloaded from the CAA
website (it's easy to google for, thankfully, as the CAA site can be a
bit tricky to navigate; beware as it's a 74Mb download) or purchased in
dead tree form from the pilot supply companies.

Section C1 (of the 2008 edition, which is what I have to hand) covers
the PPL; check out the section entitled "Credits from Flying Training"
to see what you need. You say you flew 10 years ago, so your certificate
has presumably lapsed by more than 5 years? If so, it looks like you
will need training "at the discretion" of the Head of Training at the
club or school you join, and to take the PPL(A) Skill Test, in order to
obtain a UK-JAR PPL.

However the NPPL offers another route, albeit with restrictions (broadly:
UK-only; no complex, multi, night or instrument). Section C6 of LASORS
and www.nppl.uk.com describe it. (The SSEA rating is probably what you
want to look at.) The website has a Training Allowances document, which
essentially says (section 2.3) that if you have a non-UK ICAO licence,
they'll have to assess you individually.

Post by Tom Ferris
BTW, most of my flying was in a C152 Aerobat, and I have a few Multi hours
in a Baron.

There are plenty of C150 and 152s in the UK, but very few multi.
Wherever you go, and whatever you fly, be prepared for a shock at the price!
Flying here is a lot more expensive than it is in the US.


Ross

[Tom Ferris]

Thanks Ross and Andy,

That's certainly more encouraging than I was expecting. I was expecting to
have all my hours count for zip and start afresh. Not necessarily a bad
thing, but as you say, rather expensive.
I had noted the NPPL trawling the web and such. It's probably the right
route to go down as I'm still not swimming in money, yet - unless I win the
Euro Millions tonight ;) Maybe I'll transition to a fully JAR PPL when I'm
older, wiser and wealthier.

Thanks for the tips on the clubs. I may take a trip to one or two of them in
the near future as check them out.

I know I'm jumping ahead of myself here, but in the states I remember giving
them a credit card, and walking off with a plane (once I had my license that
is). Is it as simple here? Obviously the airspace is considerably more
restricted, and radio terminology is completely different.... Speaking of
which, I'm getting my Trevor Thom books shipped up here. They are obviously
pre JAR. Do you think they are worth the paper they are written on, or
should I get the new ones?

Much appreciation for your help. Scanning the US groups (rec.aviation.pilot,
.student, etc.) they seem to be pretty confrontational and not all that much
into aviation.

Regards
Tom

Post by Ross Younger

Post by Tom Ferris
Does anyone know of anywhere around the Birmingham (England NOT US) area
that has the equivalent of an FBO?

I'm not aware of any clubs at Birmingham itself - it's unlikely
due to it being such a busy airport - but off the top of my head,
Coventry or Halfpenny Green (Wolverhampton) might be worth a look.
http://www.ukga.com/aerodrome/nearby?waypoint=5684 has a more
comprehensive map of airfields, although it's not clear from that map how
many of them offer training: you have to click through to the airfield
pages, then look to see if there are Links to any clubs resident there.

Post by Tom Ferris
Has anyone done the "equivalency", or does this not exist? do I have to
retrain from scratch to fly a plane in the UK.

The compendium document containing the current rules and regulations
regarding licensing is called LASORS and can be downloaded from the CAA
website (it's easy to google for, thankfully, as the CAA site can be a
bit tricky to navigate; beware as it's a 74Mb download) or purchased in
dead tree form from the pilot supply companies.
Section C1 (of the 2008 edition, which is what I have to hand) covers
the PPL; check out the section entitled "Credits from Flying Training"
to see what you need. You say you flew 10 years ago, so your certificate
has presumably lapsed by more than 5 years? If so, it looks like you
will need training "at the discretion" of the Head of Training at the
club or school you join, and to take the PPL(A) Skill Test, in order to
obtain a UK-JAR PPL.
UK-only; no complex, multi, night or instrument). Section C6 of LASORS
and www.nppl.uk.com describe it. (The SSEA rating is probably what you
want to look at.) The website has a Training Allowances document, which
essentially says (section 2.3) that if you have a non-UK ICAO licence,
they'll have to assess you individually.

Post by Tom Ferris
BTW, most of my flying was in a C152 Aerobat, and I have a few Multi hours
in a Baron.

There are plenty of C150 and 152s in the UK, but very few multi.
Wherever you go, and whatever you fly, be prepared for a shock at the price!
Flying here is a lot more expensive than it is in the US.
Ross
--

[Andy Hawkins]

Hi,

Post by Tom Ferris
I know I'm jumping ahead of myself here, but in the states I remember giving
them a credit card, and walking off with a plane (once I had my license that
is). Is it as simple here?

Pretty much, subject to club currency rules and the like.

Post by Tom Ferris
Obviously the airspace is considerably more
restricted, and radio terminology is completely different.... Speaking of
which, I'm getting my Trevor Thom books shipped up here. They are obviously
pre JAR. Do you think they are worth the paper they are written on, or
should I get the new ones?

I'd get new ones. The R/T and Air Law sections in particularly are likely to
have changed a fair bit.

Personally I found the AFE books (written by Jeremy Pratt) easier going than
Thom.

Post by Tom Ferris
Much appreciation for your help. Scanning the US groups (rec.aviation.pilot,
.student, etc.) they seem to be pretty confrontational and not all that much
into aviation.

Things have degenerated over there somewhat! This group is very quiet
though.

Andy (passed PPL in July 2008 flying from RAF Brize Norton, now doing my
flying from RAF Lyneham)

[Ross Younger]

Post by Andy Hawkins

[I]n the states I remember giving
them a credit card, and walking off with a plane (once I had my license that
is). Is it as simple here?

Pretty much, subject to club currency rules and the like.

I'd add that it depends on the club - some are stricter than others
about currency, authorisation to fly and checking of plogs than others.
There is a fine line to be drawn between due diligence and overcaution.

Post by Andy Hawkins

Much appreciation for your help. Scanning the US groups (rec.aviation.pilot,
.student, etc.) they seem to be pretty confrontational and not all that much
into aviation.

Things have degenerated over there somewhat! This group is very quiet
though.

This group has become increasingly quiet - and the rec.aviation groups
noisy - over the past few years. There's more of a community on some
of the web forums; Tom, you might care to look into www.ukga.com,
forums.flyer.co.uk and perhaps pprune.org. The folks there might also
have recommendations for clubs.


Ross

[Tim Ward]

Post by Ross Younger
There is a fine line to be drawn between due diligence and overcaution.

Or, much more simply, it's their train set and they can make up the rules.

[Ross Younger]

Post by Tom Ferris
Obviously the airspace is considerably more
restricted, and radio terminology is completely different....

The R/T here is a lot more formal than in the US, and to confuse matters
there is (with effect from March 12) a complete sea change coming to
the provision of air traffic services outside of controlled airspace.
(Confusingly, it occurs to me that the PPL exam papers are unlikely to
be updated immediately, so current students are likely to be examined
on the old outdated phraseology whilst having to use the new phraseology
in the air and on their practical R/T tests.)

There's a lot more airspace to contend with on these isles, but
you get used to the idea of doing a funny dog-leg route to avoid
things. Relatedly, we have a very conservative attitude to GPS; PPL
navigation is taught and examined with map, compass and stopwatch. You
have to get good at the old-fashioned ways and at spotting visual
landmarks :)


Ross

[Peter]

Post by Ross Younger
There's a lot more airspace to contend with on these isles, but
you get used to the idea of doing a funny dog-leg route to avoid
things. Relatedly, we have a very conservative attitude to GPS; PPL
navigation is taught and examined with map, compass and stopwatch. You
have to get good at the old-fashioned ways and at spotting visual
landmarks :)

That's not quite true.

UK PPL *training* is remaining firmly in WW1, with occassional
concessions to WW2 technology :) The training sausage machine is
constantly trying to scare pilots into thinking that GPS is illegal,
etc, but this is all total bollox. No UK law prescribes what equipment
may be *used* for navigation, on a private flight.

After pilots get their PPL, most of those that actually go anywhere
for real ditch the stupid old circular slide rule and use computerised
route planning and navigate with GPS.

However, on a VFR flight, ATC is entitled to request that you report
at some VRP, and are entitled to not accept IFR points (navaids,
airway intersections, etc). I think this is true worldwide through
ICAO, though some countries and some ATCOs apply it more anally than
others. So it helps if you have a GPS which shows the VRPs, otherwise
this old fashioned practice can be a right pain because many VRPs are
almost impossible to find - except for the locals who know them. Great
many pilots, myself included, wouldn't be able to (or wouldn't want
to) go anywhere half serious without radio navigation because the
map+stopwatch method is so prone to errors and if you bust some
airspace you won't get any credit for having used the grandfather's
method :)

I did my IR in the USA (Arizona). The radio is different; the USA is
generally more casual and the terminology differs a bit too.

The airspace structure is very different and this is where the biggest
difference (that I can think of) is: in the USA, you can enter some
airspace classes (D and possibly C) on just a 2-way radio contact,
whereas outside the USA you need an explicit ATC clearance ("cleared
to enter...") to enter any controlled airspace (i.e. Class D-B) under
VFR.

This group is very quiet nowadays; mostly just plane spotters. People
have moved to web forums: flyer.co.uk and pprune.org mainly. Very few
pilots even know how to read Usenet these days.

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