PPL Training - West Sussex

[o***@hotmail.com]

Hi,

I'm interested in learning to fly and am currently at the stage of
thinking about taking a trial lesson to make sure that I'd enjoy as
much as I think I would, and also to take the opportunity of checking
out the local flying schools.

I live near Chichester, so basically have the option of Goodwood or
Shoreham airfields. Obviously, Goodwood would be preferable as it is
about 20 minutes drive from home (and about 2 minutes from one of my
workplaces!), against the 70 minutes or so for Shoreham.
Unfortunately, Goodwood is not so preferable on price. Considering a 1
hour trial lesson in a PA28, Goodwood Flying School comes in at £172,
vs. a choice of three ranging from £129 - £145 at Shoreham (Sussex
Flying Club, Airbase Flying Club and Southern Flying Centre).

I was wondering whether anyone here had any experience of the various
organisations? I find it hard to imagine that the offerings are
exactly equal with those variations in price, but I can't find the
difference between them! It would be very interesting to hear some
opinions and experiences.

Another thing I have wondered - does it make any difference to the
experience you get if you make it known to the instructor that you are
seriously interested as opposed to just being there for a fun
experience?

I'd be grateful for all opinions,

Cheers

[Andy R]

<***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:***@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Hi,

I'm interested in learning to fly and am currently at the stage of
thinking about taking a trial lesson to make sure that I'd enjoy as
much as I think I would, and also to take the opportunity of checking
out the local flying schools.

I live near Chichester, so basically have the option of Goodwood or
Shoreham airfields. Obviously, Goodwood would be preferable as it is
about 20 minutes drive from home (and about 2 minutes from one of my
workplaces!), against the 70 minutes or so for Shoreham.
Unfortunately, Goodwood is not so preferable on price. Considering a 1
hour trial lesson in a PA28, Goodwood Flying School comes in at £172,
vs. a choice of three ranging from £129 - £145 at Shoreham (Sussex
Flying Club, Airbase Flying Club and Southern Flying Centre).

The question also to ask is "what's an hour?"

This is a subject I've ranted about before, here are my thoughts on the
different ways an hour is charged:

Airborn time (the best I think)
Tacho (not bad, often similar to airborn time but watch out for clubs that
say .8 tacho is equivalent to an hour)
Brakes off to brakes on or 'block time' (horrendously expensive)
Hobbs meter which works when the engine's running (even more horrendous)
Hobbs meter which works from the master switch (total rip off)

Choosing a club with the best billing method is particularly important when
choosing where to learn to fly. Somewhere that charges brakes off to brakes
on or Hobbs meter off the master switch will cost you
far more than airborn or tacho time. Even more so if it's somewhere busy
where you spend a lot of time taxying/holding.

ie take a lesson of 6 circuits at 10 minutes each at an aircraft cost of
£100 p/h. With say, 5 minutes for internal checks, 5 minutes for initial
taxy to the hold, 5 minutes holding, 2 minutes for each backtrack and 5
minutes for final taxy back and shutdown checks this would cost you £100 if
paying for airborn time or £150 if paying by a Hobbs meter linked to the
master switch. If we assume you need 45 hours in the air to reach test
standard then the cost difference could be over £2000.

Rgds

Andy R

[Joan Walsh]

In message <***@mid.individual.net>, Andy R
<***@ukhome.net> writes
[...]

Post by Andy R
The question also to ask is "what's an hour?"

[...]

Post by Andy R
Choosing a club with the best billing method is particularly important when
choosing where to learn to fly. Somewhere that charges brakes off to brakes
on or Hobbs meter off the master switch will cost you
far more than airborn or tacho time. Even more so if it's somewhere busy
where you spend a lot of time taxying/holding.

I suppose the fairest to both sides would be a dual fee, say £30 per
instructor hour from hello to goodbye, plus an aircraft usage fee of say
£75 wheels off to engine off.

[Andy R]

Post by Joan Walsh
[...]

Post by Andy R
The question also to ask is "what's an hour?"

[...]

Post by Andy R
Choosing a club with the best billing method is particularly important when
choosing where to learn to fly. Somewhere that charges brakes off to brakes
on or Hobbs meter off the master switch will cost you
far more than airborn or tacho time. Even more so if it's somewhere busy
where you spend a lot of time taxying/holding.

I suppose the fairest to both sides would be a dual fee, say £30 per
instructor hour from hello to goodbye, plus an aircraft usage fee of say
£75 wheels off to engine off.

I agree about the instructor hour but the a/c only needs to be maintained
for the time airborn and fuel consumption is minimal while taxying so,
ideally, airborn time is the fairest way of charging. Paying £2 per minute
for 15 minutes at the hold on a busy Sunday is something I find intolerable.

Rgds

Andy R

[o***@hotmail.com]

Thanks for the advice, people.

Unfortunately, having checked, all the local schools charge 'brakes on
to brakes off', so there isn't really any way around doing the
expensive way!

So now I am faced with the dilemma - four available schools, charging
between £120 and £172 for an hour lesson, measured the same way, three
of them on the same airfield (Shoreham). How to choose between them?
The one school on the other airfield (Goodwood) is most convenient,
but is the most expensive - by £50. Is there likely to be that much
variation in the quality of the offerings to justify the price
differences? Or am I simply seeing the effect of competition driving
down the prices at Shoreham but not at Goodwood?

I'm still very interested in any opinions of the particular schools
mentioned in the OP, and about choosing a school in general.

Thanks,

Chris.

[PeterD]

Post by o***@hotmail.com
So now I am faced with the dilemma - four available schools, charging
between £120 and £172 for an hour lesson, measured the same way, three
of them on the same airfield (Shoreham). How to choose between them?

Go and visit them. I had a trial flight lesson with a Shoreham based
school a year or so ago, and the instructor was so fat he took up two
thirds of the width of the Cessna 152. I didn't enjoy the lesson, and
don't think I'll be learning to fly with them. Unfortunately I can't
remember which school it was.

[Bernard Foot]

One other thing to check for when comparing prices - have they included home
landing fees in their rate? You'll be doing lots of landings, and it'll make
a significant difference if you have to pay for each one.
--
Regards,

Bernard Foot



<***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:***@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Thanks for the advice, people.

Unfortunately, having checked, all the local schools charge 'brakes on
to brakes off', so there isn't really any way around doing the
expensive way!

So now I am faced with the dilemma - four available schools, charging
between £120 and £172 for an hour lesson, measured the same way, three
of them on the same airfield (Shoreham). How to choose between them?
The one school on the other airfield (Goodwood) is most convenient,
but is the most expensive - by £50. Is there likely to be that much
variation in the quality of the offerings to justify the price
differences? Or am I simply seeing the effect of competition driving
down the prices at Shoreham but not at Goodwood?

I'm still very interested in any opinions of the particular schools
mentioned in the OP, and about choosing a school in general.

Thanks,

Chris.

[Jon]

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:50:03 -0000, "Bernard Foot"

Post by Bernard Foot
One other thing to check for when comparing prices - have they included home
landing fees in their rate? You'll be doing lots of landings, and it'll make
a significant difference if you have to pay for each one.

I landed at Goodwood late last year and was charged £15.40 for a
Piper warrior
Shoreham charge about £16 for landings and £8 for touch and go.
I believe all flying clubs at shoreham list their fees exclusive of
landing charges. with the exception of trial lessons.

Shoreham has an asphalt runway which means more availability if grass
runways are to soggy for use.

The flying club I learned with did as I think they all do by charging
brake off to brakes on. But if a silly amount of time at the hold due
to traffic then they made an allowance when charging.

I used Airbase - nice people. I found sussex flying club a bit aloof
just my opinion though.

[Joan Walsh]

Post by o***@hotmail.com
Thanks for the advice, people.

[...]

Post by o***@hotmail.com
but is the most expensive - by £50. Is there likely to be that much
variation in the quality of the offerings to justify the price
differences? Or am I simply seeing the effect of competition driving
down the prices at Shoreham but not at Goodwood?

The advice to have a trial lesson at each of your candidate schools is
worth considering. there are many variables, not least how you get on
with the instructor(s) and how that affects your learning style. The
wrong school or the wrong instructor for you could affect the total cost
of getting your licence just as much as the difference in the hourly
rate - if you are really lucky you may find that you get on best at the
cheapest school.

Good luck
Joan

[o***@hotmail.com]

Thanks to all for your replies on this one.

Booked up for an hour trial lesson with Airbase at Shoreham in the end
- I discounted Goodwood because they were just too expensive then
visited Shoreham and decided I liked Airbase the best, as well as
having Jon's recommendation of them above.

The big day comes next Tuesday, as long as the weather is OK...

Then I guess I better be prepared to be hooked and feel the desperate
need to go further!

[o***@hotmail.com]

Thanks again for all your advice here.

Had a very enjoyable flight with Airbase on Tuesday and am now
certainly hooked on the idea of doing the PPL. Just need to find the
cash now...

Chris. :-)

[o***@hotmail.com]

Thanks to all for your replies on this one.

Booked up for an hour trial lesson with Airbase at Shoreham in the end
- I discounted Goodwood because they were just too expensive then
visited Shoreham and decided I liked Airbase the best, as well as
having Jon's recommendation of them above.

The big day comes next Tuesday, as long as the weather is OK...

Then I guess I better be prepared to be hooked and feel the desperate
need to go further!

[o***@hotmail.com]

Thanks to all for your replies on this one.

Booked up for an hour trial lesson with Airbase at Shoreham in the end
- I discounted Goodwood because they were just too expensive then
visited Shoreham and decided I liked Airbase the best, as well as
having Jon's recommendation of them above.

The big day comes next Tuesday, as long as the weather is OK...

Then I guess I better be prepared to be hooked and feel the desperate
need to go further!