How did you learn to fly?

[Surfer!]

My recent experiences with round-outs got me thinking about *how* one
learns to fly - not *what* one has to learn. Obviously going out and
having a go is essential, but how important were briefings? How crucial
was their timing? Has anyone tried visualisation? What different
styles of instructing did different people find suited them, and did
they find different styles helpful at different times, and/or for
different things?

It's clear to me that our group of ab initios are all different in our
learning styles - a couple of us love to go out and try to do it, though
for me at least for landing (!) a decent briefing helped, as did a more
thoughtful approach to it. Other people want less of the 'just feel it'
approach from the instructor and more of a 'do it like this' approach.
For myself, I like the 'just feel it' a lot of the time as it's how I
sail a boat - any boat. At least any boat I've tried to sail - racing
dinghies, training dinghies, a 27' Jag and a 35' Beneteau though one has
to listen harder to the bigger boats.

Also, having managed a much better strike rate with round-outs earlier
this week, I'm busy visualising what the last one (the best one) looked
like and felt like, along with the instructors voice reminding me to
hold off (e.g. keep moving the stick back), and keep the wings level
once we were doing the ground run.

Some people suggested thinking of the height of one elephant on top of
another. I managed to find a way in which that might happen that had me
dissolving in laughter - thankfully in the launch caravan, not the air,
as the instructor realised what I had imagined and was busy joining in.
Then he carefully stood one elephant *standing* on another. :)

Oh yes - a bit of laughter really helps!

[Simon Hobson]

Post by Surfer!
My recent experiences with round-outs got me thinking about *how* one
learns to fly - not *what* one has to learn. Obviously going out and
having a go is essential, but how important were briefings?

What's a briefing ;-)

Post by Surfer!
How crucial
was their timing? Has anyone tried visualisation? What different
styles of instructing did different people find suited them, and did
they find different styles helpful at different times, and/or for
different things?
It's clear to me that our group of ab initios are all different in our
learning styles

That's the key thing, different people learn in different ways - and it's
important for the instructor to recognise the type of student, or even for
the school to pair the student with a different instructor.

Simon

[Peter]

Post by Simon Hobson

Post by Surfer!
It's clear to me that our group of ab initios are all different in our
learning styles

That's the key thing, different people learn in different ways - and it's
important for the instructor to recognise the type of student, or even for
the school to pair the student with a different instructor.

I am not sure to what degree the thread was meant to be about gliding,
but the above is very true in all flight training.

It is the failing of most instructors; they can't spot the differences
and/or they are unable to adjust their technique.

Some students are thick and need to be trained military-style. Others
are bright and don't need as much repetition. Others are "old" (like
me, nearly 50) and need a considerable amount of repetition :) Others
are trained technologists/engineers and keep asking loads of questions
which pisses off most instructors (which I certainly did).

Some are successful businessmen/women who demand the same high
standard from their instructor as they demand from everybody else in
their busy lives, and this *really* pisses off most instructors - yet
it is this category which IMHO is most needed in today's GA because
they are about the only ones who have a budget that's realistic for GA
flying currency. These are also the people who can buy new planes, so
without them the whole scene is going down the plughole, as the
current 25-year old fleet gets older and older.

[Surfer!]

Post by Peter

Post by Simon Hobson

Post by Surfer!
It's clear to me that our group of ab initios are all different in our
learning styles

That's the key thing, different people learn in different ways - and it's
important for the instructor to recognise the type of student, or even for
the school to pair the student with a different instructor.

I am not sure to what degree the thread was meant to be about gliding,
but the above is very true in all flight training.

I was thinking of gliding but I'm sure you are right - and I also feel
that it's possible to generalise into other technical sports.

Post by Peter
It is the failing of most instructors; they can't spot the differences
and/or they are unable to adjust their technique.

That's probably what sets great instructors apart. It's a completely
different arena, but I was struck in 'Kitchen Nightmares' as to how
flexible GRs approach was in explaining. For example, he has been
through the books at one place to show how their pricing is wrong, and
at another baked a sponge cake. The effing was a given, though.

Post by Peter
Some students are thick and need to be trained military-style.

Worrying given that conditions in the sky don't behave in a military
fashion.

Post by Peter
Others
are bright and don't need as much repetition. Others are "old" (like
me, nearly 50) and need a considerable amount of repetition :) Others
are trained technologists/engineers and keep asking loads of questions
which pisses off most instructors (which I certainly did).
Some are successful businessmen/women who demand the same high
standard from their instructor as they demand from everybody else in
their busy lives, and this *really* pisses off most instructors - yet
it is this category which IMHO is most needed in today's GA because
they are about the only ones who have a budget that's realistic for GA
flying currency. These are also the people who can buy new planes, so
without them the whole scene is going down the plughole, as the
current 25-year old fleet gets older and older.

And surely instructors want to be *good* instructors?

BTW you might get the same high standards expectation from people who
have been successful in other sports. Thankfully gliders are cheaper
than power planes, as is keeping currency though the account I got
yesterday still made me blanch and check it before writing my cheque!

I was studying with the OU until the end of last year (got my degree),
and some courses encouraged a lot of reflective learning and to my utter
surprise (it was totally tedious in the form we had to do it) the habit
seems to have stuck. One thing I've realised recently is that because
we bounce around between different instructors, for me at least it helps
if I brief the instructor as well as him briefing me, at least now I
need to work in specific directions to get solo. I've also started
trying to feed back to the instructors - for example, after a flight
yesterday the instructor was talking about the next one, so I asked if
we could make sure we had reviewed the one I had just landed (yes,
folks, it has started to click) and talk about the next flight just
before it.

We have also discussed feedback a bit - some instructors have told me
that so-and-so is (= will make) a good pilot - but I suspect they
haven't told that person! Also, I'm told some instructors concentrate
on the negatives after a flight, but a lot of us flourish more with
being told the positives as well.

I'm not sure if there is a gender bias in how we learn or teach (in the
broadest sense), though I guess it's hard to tell in flying as there
seem to be very few women involved.

[Geo]

On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 11:14:24 +0100, Surfer! <***@127.0.0.1> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Surfer!
We have also discussed feedback a bit - some instructors have told me
that so-and-so is (= will make) a good pilot - but I suspect they
haven't told that person! Also, I'm told some instructors concentrate
on the negatives after a flight, but a lot of us flourish more with
being told the positives as well.

My wife mentioned that one of our instructors always liked to finish with saying
something positive - even if it was only parking the aircraft neatly...

Geo

[Dave]

Peter wrote:
... snipped

Post by Peter
It is the failing of most instructors; they can't spot the differences
and/or they are unable to adjust their technique.
Some students are thick and need to be trained military-style. Others
are bright and don't need as much repetition. Others are "old" (like
me, nearly 50) and need a considerable amount of repetition :) Others
are trained technologists/engineers and keep asking loads of questions
which pisses off most instructors (which I certainly did).
Some are successful businessmen/women who demand the same high
standard from their instructor as they demand from everybody else in
their busy lives, and this *really* pisses off most instructors - yet
it is this category which IMHO is most needed in today's GA because
they are about the only ones who have a budget that's realistic for GA
flying currency. These are also the people who can buy new planes, so
without them the whole scene is going down the plughole, as the
current 25-year old fleet gets older and older.

Peter (IO540?), you repeatedly make strong negative comments about
instructors and it really is getting pretty tiresome. What's your
justification for making statements about "most" instructors - have you
really flown with so many?

Instructors are just like any other group of people, but possibly more
highly motivated. There will be a spread in the range of flying and
teaching abilities (which will vary day to day) and there will be a
range of personalities; rather like students. Most student/instructor
pairings will work well but occasionally there's a personality mismatch
so a new pairing is needed and (very very rarely) there's also the
"student from hell".
If anyone has a problem with their instructor, whether it is a general
personality clash or a specific problem, they should first discuss it
with the person concerned and then, if necessary, with their management
(the CFI) - just as you would in any other organisation. Take your
business somewhere else if the problem isn't satisfactorily resolved.

An increasing number of instructors have held or currently hold
successful senior positions in other walks of life. With no effort
whatsoever I can thing of medical Consultants, engineering Fellows,
senior military officers, lawyers, senior IT managers, test pilots and
others who are currently instructing - either concurrently with the
other role or having taken early "retirement". We all welcome the
student that asks questions - it shows motivation and interest.
There is nothing unique about my personal network so if I can think of
this range it is probably representative of the national spread.

Peter, you may have had a bad experience during your training but not
everyone does; please don't continually knock instructors in general
based on a small specific problem.

Dave

[Peter]

Post by Dave
have you
really flown with so many?

About 5 in the PPL/night, 4 in IMC Rating, 5 in the IR. Nothing
sinister in those numbers; just a consequence of schools going bust,
ATPL hour builders leaving, and doing it a bit at a time over 6 years,
in two countries.

Post by Dave
Instructors are just like any other group of people, but possibly more
highly motivated. There will be a spread in the range of flying and
teaching abilities (which will vary day to day) and there will be a
range of personalities; rather like students. Most student/instructor
pairings will work well but occasionally there's a personality mismatch
so a new pairing is needed and (very very rarely) there's also the
"student from hell".
If anyone has a problem with their instructor, whether it is a general
personality clash or a specific problem, they should first discuss it
with the person concerned and then, if necessary, with their management
(the CFI) - just as you would in any other organisation. Take your
business somewhere else if the problem isn't satisfactorily resolved.

I agree.

The politics of doing that might be a tad difficult at times!

Post by Dave
An increasing number of instructors have held or currently hold
successful senior positions in other walks of life. With no effort
whatsoever I can thing of medical Consultants, engineering Fellows,
senior military officers, lawyers, senior IT managers, test pilots and
others who are currently instructing - either concurrently with the
other role or having taken early "retirement".

That's a pretty amazing flying school you work for!

Post by Dave
We all welcome the
student that asks questions - it shows motivation and interest.
There is nothing unique about my personal network so if I can think of
this range it is probably representative of the national spread.

From what I have seen, it certainly isn't. Most instructors around the
UK are still ATPL hour builders, looking for airline jobs with varying
degrees of success.

Short of being in a school in a very good location (good catchment
area, little competition, etc) one cannot generally make a living
doing it. UK weather and customer numbers prevent it. In Arizona for
example an instructor can make it a full-time job and fly 7 hours a
day, 7 days a week, 362 days/year. It's good to find a retired airline
captain doing training as a hobby, but it's not common IMV.

Post by Dave
Peter, you may have had a bad experience during your training but not
everyone does; please don't continually knock instructors in general
based on a small specific problem.

Maybe I have seen too much.

Most instructors I have met are genuinely *nice* people.

But there is a difference between being nice and being effective.

[Dave]

... snipped

Post by Peter

Post by Dave
An increasing number of instructors have held or currently hold
successful senior positions in other walks of life. With no effort
whatsoever I can thing of medical Consultants, engineering Fellows,
senior military officers, lawyers, senior IT managers, test pilots and
others who are currently instructing - either concurrently with the
other role or having taken early "retirement".

That's a pretty amazing flying school you work for!

... snipped

Actually, it is! But I was thinking of other instructors I know, as well
as the place I usually work.
My point is simply that instructors have a wide range of personalities
and backgrounds; their instructing abilities range between excellent and
(I suspect) poor. What you say is probably true about "some" instructors
but it is incorrect (and in professional circles would be regarded as
unprofessional) to keep banging-on anonymously about "most" instructors
without the evidence to justify the statements.

You appear to have had a bad experience with instructors and with
aircraft; this is not sufficient to justify claims about "most".
FWIW my personal experience has been totally different. One instructor
(and IT professional) for PPL, IMC and Night (20+ years ago); one
instructor (and IT professional) for tailwheel; one instructor
(ex-professional but can't recall what) for my CAA IR; one instructor
for CPL, FI, MEP and EX.
Also, virtually all the aircraft I have been taught in over 20+ years
have been in good condition with working avionics where relevant.

Dave

[karel]

What different > styles of instructing did different people find suited
them,
and did they find different styles helpful at different times, and/or for
different things?

Well yes, I have had 5 instructors for my 9 hours of tuition so far
and even if 5 is a bit overdone, it is good to have several styles of
instruction. As I am not very young I need some time to get
at my ease in the plane and just relax and enjoy being up in the skies.
One instructor will let me do exactly this and will add exercises
little by little, and so I feel more and more at my ease and have
the impression of making some little progress.
Another instructor is rather impatient, he pushes me forward
manoevres I feel slightly scary, and I'll leave the plane with some
degree of stress but also with the feeling to have made firm progress.

[Mike Lindsay]

Post by karel

What different > styles of instructing did different people find suited
them,
and did they find different styles helpful at different times, and/or for
different things?

Well yes, I have had 5 instructors for my 9 hours of tuition so far
and even if 5 is a bit overdone, it is good to have several styles of
instruction. As I am not very young I need some time to get
at my ease in the plane and just relax and enjoy being up in the skies.
One instructor will let me do exactly this and will add exercises
little by little, and so I feel more and more at my ease and have
the impression of making some little progress.
Another instructor is rather impatient, he pushes me forward
manoevres I feel slightly scary, and I'll leave the plane with some
degree of stress but also with the feeling to have made firm progress.

When I started gliding an instructor was someone who had a bit
more experience than you did who the Chief Flying Instructor (God) had
approved.

So you got many different styles of instructing from the ultra
laid back to the downright neurotic. The neurotics were the worst, they
never stopped their bleating about watching the airspeed and picking
that wing up for an instant. And they held on to the stick with an iron
grip.

But now things have gone to the other extreme. You don't get to
be an instructor without doing a bunch of expensive courses where you
learn the proper things to say to your pupils, and how dangerous the job
is. Not from actual injury, but from legal action.

You cant help feeling grateful that people put themselves
through all this hassle to become instructors.

Power flying instruction seemed in the 80's to have a rather
different tradition. Instructors would be a great pains to point out how
rubbish your flying was, which had the effect of either putting you off
altogether or fighting back to be better. It was a really unpleasant way
of going about the job. I happened to know that on the ground, one of my
instructors was a pleasant friendly guy, but in the air he was a nagging
whinger. Things are a bit now, thank goodness.

[Surfer!]

In message <5$***@sailplane.demon.co.uk>, Mike Lindsay
<***@sailplane.demon.co.uk> writes
<snip>

Not sure if you are talking gliding, power or both.

Post by Mike Lindsay
But now things have gone to the other extreme. You don't get to
be an instructor without doing a bunch of expensive courses where you
learn the proper things to say to your pupils, and how dangerous the job
is. Not from actual injury, but from legal action.

Sailing has gone the same route - and I found myself wondering how some
of the people that were on the same dinghy instructor I was ever passed
the pre-course sailing assessment.

Post by Mike Lindsay
You cant help feeling grateful that people put themselves
through all this hassle to become instructors.

I marvel almost every time I fly that not only have they put themselves
through, they have paid to do so, and they give their time instructing
up for free (at least they do at our club), and they must get a few
horrible scares each year as well. Imagine sitting there, canopy closed
& locked, as a pupil does their first winch launch. What if the ground
handler gets it wrong, or the pupil does? They must have one hand over
the cable release, the other one poised ready to grab the stick and
their heart in their mouths. It must be a very high-adrenaline thing to
do.

Post by Mike Lindsay
Power flying instruction seemed in the 80's to have a rather
different tradition. Instructors would be a great pains to point out how
rubbish your flying was, which had the effect of either putting you off
altogether or fighting back to be better. It was a really unpleasant way
of going about the job. I happened to know that on the ground, one of my
instructors was a pleasant friendly guy, but in the air he was a nagging
whinger. Things are a bit now, thank goodness.

Not always so different - I hear there are some guys up there telling
you how cr*p you are.

[David Cartwright]

Post by karel
Well yes, I have had 5 instructors for my 9 hours of tuition so far
and even if 5 is a bit overdone, it is good to have several styles of
instruction.

In my PPL then IMC rating training, I flew with nine instructors. The vast
majority of time was spent with the same chap (zillions of hours,
RAF-then-commercial helicopter guy), but of the hours I did with others:

1 was spent with the CFI who left just after I started (former Harrier
pilot)
2 were spent with an hours-building commercial guy who soon went on to a
commercial FO job
3 with an RAF helicopter guy who was working on getting his civvy instructor
rating
3 with a Hunter-turned-airliner pilot (zillions of hours)
3.75 with an A340 captain (actually my PPL final test - we got part-way
through before the weather closed in and we had to go again)
2 with a guy in his fifties who's always been an instructor
1 with a lass who'd just got her ATPL/IR and was looking for an airline job
2 with another hours-building commercial guy who, last time I looked, was
still at my club

D.

[David Cartwright]

Obviously going out and having a go is essential, but how important were
briefings?

Briefings are absolutely essential for maximising the value you got from
time in the air. If you brief properly on the ground, you can spend 100% of
your time in the air actually doing it, not talking about what you're going
to be doing.

How crucial was their timing?

It was crucial, but mainly in the sense that you should have them at the
right times and make them the right length. For instance, before you get in
the aircraft for the first time and do some basic handling, you'd expect to
spend time in a room with a cup of tea, a whiteboard and a wooden model to
go through how everything works. Similarly if you're going off on your first
dual navex, or you're going to do your first stalling exercise, you'd want
to prepare properly on the ground to cover (a) how you do it and (b) who's
going to do what if everything goes pear-shaped. Other times (e.g. when
you're going for your fourth consecutive hour of circuit-bashing) it's
pointless briefing for the sake of it - but five or ten minutes wasn't
uncommon for me, with the instructor saying: "Yeah, you've got the idea, but
remember that when you get to stage X you should be calling ATC to tell them
Y - as we discussed, you forgot to do that a couple of times last week".

I have had one instructor that I didn't particularly like flying with for a
start, but he was young and inexperienced and we both realised that the
reason it wasn't working was that (a) he did things differently from the
others; and (b) he wasn't briefing me to any great extent. So it led to
confusion - so, for instance, where he expected me to recover a stall when
the warner started chirping, I was carrying it through to the full stall
because that's what the other guys liked, which caused him to take control
because he thought I was about to do something dumb. As soon as the
light-bulb moment happened, the problem was fixed and I've flown most
enjoyably with him since.

Debriefs are equally important, of course. I just wrote "as we discussed,
you forgot to do that ..." - the discussion in question would have been the
de-brief after the previous lesson. Doesn't need to be a formal classroom
session (a lot of the time mine took place over a coffee and a biscuit,
though we had the occasional whiteboard-based debrief if the instructor
needed to draw pretty pictures to get me to understand).

Incidentally, the most important part is record-keeping. Most people have
more than one instructor during their tuition (even if it's just the odd bit
of holiday cover or sickness) and it's essential that when you come in for
your lesson, the person leading that lesson can read proper notes about what
you've done, how you did, what's next and what dodgy traits in your flying
he needs to keep an eye on.

Has anyone tried visualisation? What different styles of instructing did
different people find suited them, and did they find different styles
helpful at different times, and/or for different things?

I had a number of different styles thrown at me, and all were useful. My
main instructor was a pretty laid-back ex helicopter captain who tended to
be fairly conservative and whose mind worked in an organised fashion. So his
forced-landing technique started with the "OK, pretend you're in a circuit,
try to be at this height here, that height there, ...". Another took the
approach of: "Step one is to turn into the wind" and preferred the idea of
flying an arc and eyeballing the approach. My PFL technique (I've not yet
had the misfortune of the "P" disappearing :-) turned out as a combination
of both. Similarly, for crosswind landings I've been taught, by different
people, both to (a) crab into the wind then boot the back end round; and (b)
side-slip and thus fly the approach line with one wing down. Turns out I
prefer to do (a) until 300' or so then transition to (b) for the landing,
but because I was taught both I was able to realise this.

My main instructor didn't do all that much chucking about of the aircraft,
though I did lose count of the real spiral dives and full stalls we did. But
I also spent some time with others, including one chap who flew Hunters and
the like, and to whom it seemed an unusual position wasn't unusual enough if
the AI didn't look like it was falling apart and/or you could see the sky
when looking up.

It's clear to me that our group of ab initios are all different in our
learning styles - a couple of us love to go out and try to do it, though
for me at least for landing (!) a decent briefing helped, as did a more
thoughtful approach to it. Other people want less of the 'just feel it'
approach from the instructor and more of a 'do it like this' approach.

It's a combination of both in my case. If you've seen a picture of how the
perspective of the runway looks when you're too high, too low and just
right, you're in a position to have half a chance of expressing an opinion
when the instructor's deliberately mucking up an approach and says: "What do
you think's wrong with this, then?"

Also, having managed a much better strike rate with round-outs earlier
this week, I'm busy visualising what the last one (the best one) looked
like and felt like, along with the instructors voice reminding me to hold
off (e.g. keep moving the stick back), and keep the wings level once we
were doing the ground run.

Which brings us to the another important point - the more you do it, the
more instinctive it becomes. I recently flew for the first time in a year,
and I couldn't believe how much had stuck. It was a different aircraft (C172
instead of a PA-28/38), at a different airfield (little rural place instead
of an international airport), on a different surface (grass instead of
concrete) yet I couldn't do anything wrong. Even steep turns (the one thing
that's always niggled me because it's never quite clicked and I have to try
really, really hard to get it even slightly right) were coming out a treat,
and every landing happened gently and right where I aimed it. I know the
reason for doing it right wasn't that I'm some kind of superman - it was
because I was made to do all the basic stuff over and over again until the
instructor and I were both comfortable I knew it properly.

Oh yes - a bit of laughter really helps!

I quite agree. One of my CFI's phrases I remember clearly was: "Oh, and when
you do X, don't do Y, cos that can be a bit fatal ...". Another instructor
once came out with: "Oh, I'll just go and grab the GPS, we're bound to get
lost" (to be fair, we were about to embark into true IMC for an hour -
though the CFI, a retired ATPL with 14,000 hours, would probably have
inserted tongue in cheek and asked what was wrong with VORs and NDBs :-)

A bit of fun helps too, of course. On the "We're bound to get lost" trip, we
went up through the clouds in our PA-28 and had some fun chucking it about,
as if the peaks and troughs in the cloud were the Welsh mountains/valleys
(though, fortunately for us, marginally less solid). While there's a serious
side to learning to fly, it's important to remember that us PPLs are doing
it mostly for the fun of it!

D.

[Peter]

Post by David Cartwright
A bit of fun helps too, of course. On the "We're bound to get lost" trip, we
went up through the clouds in our PA-28 and had some fun chucking it about,
as if the peaks and troughs in the cloud were the Welsh mountains/valleys
(though, fortunately for us, marginally less solid). While there's a serious
side to learning to fly, it's important to remember that us PPLs are doing
it mostly for the fun of it!

I think FUN is a crucial point.

I found PPL training to be a read hard slog. So many cancelled
lessons, and then flying some knackered filthy stinking airplane and
having to spend so many hours on that daft circular wind calculator
which I knew full well I would never use in real life. I know this
upsets instructors who have had to suffer reading my diatribes over
the last few years but I don't think it is exactly an uncommon
experience.

Flying solo post-PPL, in something a bit better, is a revelation in
comparison. Even flying solo before getting the PPL is so much more
fun than flight training.

One could make flight training more enjoyable for the student; for
example by planning a flight from A to B where B is somewhere
reasonably interesting, perhaps abroad. But it would be more expensive
and most punters won't pay the extra. I know of some aircraft owners
who "employed" instructors in this way and they had a lot of fun
learning whatever they were learning but it cost them a lot more than
the 6k-8k the average PPL costs. That's the tradeoff: an honest
instructor is unlikely to mix in too much fun into the training.

[Surfer!]

In message <***@4ax.com>, Peter
<***@somewhere-in-the-uk.com> writes
<snip>

Post by Peter
it cost them a lot more than
the 6k-8k the average PPL costs.

Wow! I'm glad I have no aspirations to a PPL - gliding XC will do just
fine for me, and will have challenges for years to come.

[Air Head]

Post by Surfer!
My recent experiences with round-outs got me thinking about *how* one
learns to fly - not *what* one has to learn. Obviously going out and
having a go is essential, but how important were briefings? How crucial
was their timing? Has anyone tried visualisation? What different
styles of instructing did different people find suited them, and did
they find different styles helpful at different times, and/or for
different things?

I was a sponge. I soaked up everything. I'd even evesdrop on other poeple's
briefings..still do.

Visualisation? definately. I'd often learn a lesson after the event. i.e I'd
fly at the weekend and realise details later in the week. I run scenarios
through my mind and ask what if this or what if that !? Analyse the process.

Post by Surfer!
It's clear to me that our group of ab initios are all different in our
learning styles - ....
I like the 'just feel it' a lot of the time as it's how I
sail a boat - any boat.

Glider flying is a lot like sailing. Aerodynamics are basically the same as
aquadynamics. The thermal behaviors are basically the same. Air can feel
very fluid.

Post by Surfer!
Some people suggested thinking of the height of one elephant on top of
another....
Oh yes - a bit of laughter really helps!

a good helping of humour is the best way to learn/teach anything.

best wishes
Gail

[Surfer!]

In message <e8dl8m$5oj$***@news.ox.ac.uk>, Air Head <***@thismail.com>
writes

Post by Air Head

Post by Surfer!
My recent experiences with round-outs got me thinking about *how* one
learns to fly - not *what* one has to learn. Obviously going out and
having a go is essential, but how important were briefings? How crucial
was their timing? Has anyone tried visualisation? What different
styles of instructing did different people find suited them, and did
they find different styles helpful at different times, and/or for
different things?

I was a sponge. I soaked up everything. I'd even evesdrop on other poeple's
briefings..still do.

So do I - though the people eavesdropping on mine last week when I got
the wrong idea about two elephants might have wondered how many screws I
have lose!

Post by Air Head
Visualisation? definately. I'd often learn a lesson after the event. i.e I'd
fly at the weekend and realise details later in the week. I run scenarios
through my mind and ask what if this or what if that !? Analyse the process.

I did that with the best landing from the Wednesday, replaying it worked
a treat on Sunday - but I was curious if it's a new learning strategy
for some folks. Certainly it was never mentioned to us specifically,
it's simply the way I've learnt quite a few things.

Post by Air Head

Post by Surfer!
It's clear to me that our group of ab initios are all different in our
learning styles - ....
I like the 'just feel it' a lot of the time as it's how I
sail a boat - any boat.

Glider flying is a lot like sailing. Aerodynamics are basically the same as
aquadynamics. The thermal behaviors are basically the same. Air can feel
very fluid.

It can - but being totally isolated from the air makes it very different
to me. When I'm sailing I cannot bear to wear a hat, and wear as little
as possible on arms & legs as every square inch of skin is a little wind
vane. I can also hear the wind (sometimes) and see it (ruffled water),
so there is a huge amount of sensory input which is absent gliding.
Felt some of it on a ride in the T12.

Post by Air Head

Post by Surfer!
Some people suggested thinking of the height of one elephant on top of
another....
Oh yes - a bit of laughter really helps!

a good helping of humour is the best way to learn/teach anything.

Like those elephants... :)

Later someone said that we used to have a windsock that looked rather
like a condom - and that reminded me of elephants as well, bearing in
mind the average size of a windsock...

[Air Head]

... can also hear the wind (sometimes) and see it (ruffled water),
so there is a huge amount of sensory input which is absent gliding.
Felt some of it on a ride in the T12.

Ahh the fly by feel method. yes, definately the preferred method. Gauges are
latent. that means they inform you after the event.

If you fly by feel, you feel the thermal first then react and the gauges
confirm (or not) the action.
It's a bit like driving over a hump-backed bridge. You can feel the
elevation as you rise and feel it again as you decend down the other side.
The trick is to feel the rise, wait for it to peak then bank once the peak
is reached. If one wing lifts first - dig that wing in!

easypeasy.

I have a couple of tips.

1) Fly by feel.
2) If the vario says '0' you may not be going up, but you aint going down
either. i.e, you could stay up all day.

Later someone said that we used to have a windsock that looked rather
like a condom - and that reminded me of elephants as well, bearing in
mind the average size of a windsock...

hmmmmmmm. I have no pearls of wisdom to impart on elephant procreative
methods.

Best wishes

Gail