Hearing Problems

[Lyndon]

I am a wannabe student pilot with a hearing problem. I am completely deaf in
my left ear and moderately deaf in my right. I had a trial lesson to see how
well I could hear the instructor. With the radio volume set to max and my
headset volume set to max, I could hear my instructor when he was talking to
me, but I heard none of the conversation on the radio. This is obviously a
difficulty that needs to be sorted.

Just a thought. Is it possible that the radio conversations were played in
my left ear? Or would all speech be presented to both ears?

If the latter, are there any amplifying headsets available that would give
me an extra 40 or 50 dB of sound?

All suggestions/ideas would be gratefully received.

[Peter]

Post by Lyndon
I am a wannabe student pilot with a hearing problem. I am completely deaf in
my left ear and moderately deaf in my right. I had a trial lesson to see how
well I could hear the instructor. With the radio volume set to max and my
headset volume set to max, I could hear my instructor when he was talking to
me, but I heard none of the conversation on the radio. This is obviously a
difficulty that needs to be sorted.
Just a thought. Is it possible that the radio conversations were played in
my left ear? Or would all speech be presented to both ears?
If the latter, are there any amplifying headsets available that would give
me an extra 40 or 50 dB of sound?
All suggestions/ideas would be gratefully received.

You can get a UK/JAA PPL (and the IMC Rating) with one totally dud
ear, but you can't get a JAA IR (or a JAA CPL/IR or ATPL) with that
because you will fail the JAA audiogram. You can get an FAA Class 1
medical with it though, so you can be a 747 captain in most of the
world :)

The question is how bad the other one is. Normally, aviation headsets
are all monaural so the same sound goes to both ears. If you could
hear the instructor but not ATC then the intercom was quite simply set
incorrectly, or there was some other problem (e.g. a half duff
headset; dud headsets are not uncommon in the training scene) which
the instructor should have sorted out.

The two should be heard at the same volume, and there should be
separate controls. Most decent intercoms (not many of them in training
aeroplanes though) have one large knob for the inter-pilot volume and
then you use the volume knobs on the individual avionics to adjust the
volume of external comms.

You should get yourself a CAA Class 2 medical *now* and find out
before spending too much money. The hearing test in that is informal;
they stand you in the corner and talk to you and you "cover up" one
ear in turn. If you can hear then you pass.

There are good headsets and assuming you can pass the medical and want
to carry on it will pay you to buy a decent headset, like a Bose X.
However, an extra 40-50db is a *massive* amount of gain which no
headset will give you. That amount of gain would take you well above
the pain threshold! If you can manage a face to face conversation
without a hearing aid then you need only a few extra db and you can
get that by turning up the volume.

[Lyndon]

Post by Peter
You can get a UK/JAA PPL (and the IMC Rating) with one totally dud
ear, but you can't get a JAA IR (or a JAA CPL/IR or ATPL) with that
because you will fail the JAA audiogram. You can get an FAA Class 1
medical with it though, so you can be a 747 captain in most of the
world :)
The question is how bad the other one is. Normally, aviation headsets
are all monaural so the same sound goes to both ears. If you could
hear the instructor but not ATC then the intercom was quite simply set
incorrectly, or there was some other problem (e.g. a half duff
headset; dud headsets are not uncommon in the training scene) which
the instructor should have sorted out.
The two should be heard at the same volume, and there should be
separate controls. Most decent intercoms (not many of them in training
aeroplanes though) have one large knob for the inter-pilot volume and
then you use the volume knobs on the individual avionics to adjust the
volume of external comms.
You should get yourself a CAA Class 2 medical *now* and find out
before spending too much money. The hearing test in that is informal;
they stand you in the corner and talk to you and you "cover up" one
ear in turn. If you can hear then you pass.
There are good headsets and assuming you can pass the medical and want
to carry on it will pay you to buy a decent headset, like a Bose X.
However, an extra 40-50db is a *massive* amount of gain which no
headset will give you. That amount of gain would take you well above
the pain threshold! If you can manage a face to face conversation
without a hearing aid then you need only a few extra db and you can
get that by turning up the volume.

Thanks Peter. There's a lot of valuable information in your reply for me to
digest. I can't manage a face to face conversation without a hearing aid,
unless the speaker is easy to lipread. My hearing loss in my 'good' ear is
about 55dB, and I normally wear an aid that is fixed to my skull just behind
my ear, which means I can't wear it when I have a headset on. A gain of 35dB
is adequate for quiet conditions when I can afford to mishear much of what
is said, and get lots of repeats, so I obviously need a better margin under
flying conditions, so 40 dB would be a minimum.

I take your point about having the medical now, but I am not hopeful of
passing anyway. I am reconciled that I may always have to fly with an
instructor sitting next to me, but hey, that's a lot better than not flying
at all.

[Peter]

Post by Lyndon
I take your point about having the medical now, but I am not hopeful of
passing anyway. I am reconciled that I may always have to fly with an
instructor sitting next to me, but hey, that's a lot better than not flying
at all.

Actually I think you can get a restricted PPL even if you are totally
deaf. In Class G airspace it's legal to fly non-radio and many people
do just that. I dont know how it works in practice; presumably you
have to telephone each destination and give them your ETA.

[D]

I dont know how it works in practice; presumably you

Post by Peter
have to telephone each destination and give them your ETA.

Not being funny, but if you are totally deaf...the phone??

Does the NPPL medical help here?

david

[Lyndon]

Post by Peter
I dont know how it works in practice; presumably you

Post by Peter
have to telephone each destination and give them your ETA.

Not being funny, but if you are totally deaf...the phone??

Sensible question, but there are ways. It's possible to use textphone
(minicom) to a service that will dial a number for you and relay your
message by voice.

I've just found the Deaf Pilot's Association
http://www.deafpilots.com/faq.html but they are in the US. What Peter said
about uncontrolled airspace seems to apply there.

It looks as if in the UK the CAA insist on a deaf pilot travelling with a
'safety' pilot to handle the radio. So I'd better try to sort out the
amplification I need, and have a more detailed look at the medical
requirements.

[Lyndon]

Post by Peter
I dont know how it works in practice; presumably you

Post by Peter
have to telephone each destination and give them your ETA.

Not being funny, but if you are totally deaf...the phone??

Also, although I can't, at the moment, use the radio, I *can* use a
telephone, because I can make sure that there is enough amplification for me
to be able to cope. There'd be lots of hearing aid users in my position, so
it would be a useful way forward.

[Peter]

Post by Lyndon
It looks as if in the UK the CAA insist on a deaf pilot travelling with a
'safety' pilot to handle the radio.

Do you have a reference for this? That would suprise me, since as I
said one can fly non-radio in UK Class G.

There are some airfields which prohibit non-radio aircraft, but not
many.

Good point David about phoning :)

[Lyndon]

Post by Peter

Post by Lyndon
It looks as if in the UK the CAA insist on a deaf pilot travelling with a
'safety' pilot to handle the radio.

Do you have a reference for this? That would suprise me, since as I
said one can fly non-radio in UK Class G.
There are some airfields which prohibit non-radio aircraft, but not
many.
Good point David about phoning :)

Only this:
http://www.bdfa.net/page16/page11/page11.html

'CAA require a safety pilot to fly with a deaf pilot in order to deal with
radio communications. In the USA deaf pilots (where there are over 80 of
them) are allowed to fly solo in areas where use of radio is not required.
They use old-fashioned light system for take-offs and landings.'

[Gus Cabre]

Lyndon,

I am an aviation doctor. I am concerned that you believe you can turn up the
headset volume to max for your good ear as high volumes in headsets is the
main cause of deafness in pilots!! I am not joking but give up the idea of
using normal headsets without a hearing aid of some sort. I am not expert on
the different kinds of hearing aids, but I am sure there must be some sort
of loop hearing system that can be connected to the aircraft. The aim is to
lower that volume. The audiology department of your local hospital might be
able to advise. Or perhaps the American website you mentioned in another
e-mail.

It is not compulsory to use the radio if you are flying in uncontrolled
airspace. To qualify for a NPPL you must meat the medical requirements of a
DVLA class 2 (professional driving licence). This opened the door to many
pilots who could not satisfy the JAA medical standards. Severe deafness is
one of those conditions that wouldn't let you drive professionally, but I
cannot see why this should stop you from flying.

My advice is that if you are interested in a PPL, you Medical Section of the
CAA directly. Give them a call, explain your situation. They will advise.
There is no point in having a full medical as the AME would refer your case
to the CAA anyway. For the NPPL, there are 3 doctors who advise. The NPPL
medical standards have nothing to so with the CAA. The name of these doctors
will be in the NPPL website.

If what you wanted was to obtain a commercial licence, you can forget the
idea. You need a minimum of good hearing in both ears as you would require
to fully understand ATC.

Lyndon. I wish you well and good luck. I suspect that NPPL (perhaps
microlights) is your best option. As mentioned, look up the 3 medical
advisors for NPPL as your GP will not be able to certify you in this case. I
am sorry I have not given you good news, but I am concerned that you might
lose the rest of your hearing by just tweaking a little bi more that volume
knob.


Gus

Post by Lyndon
I am a wannabe student pilot with a hearing problem. I am completely deaf
in my left ear and moderately deaf in my right. I had a trial lesson to see
how well I could hear the instructor. With the radio volume set to max and
my headset volume set to max, I could hear my instructor when he was
talking to me, but I heard none of the conversation on the radio. This is
obviously a difficulty that needs to be sorted.
Just a thought. Is it possible that the radio conversations were played in
my left ear? Or would all speech be presented to both ears?
If the latter, are there any amplifying headsets available that would give
me an extra 40 or 50 dB of sound?
All suggestions/ideas would be gratefully received.
--
Lyndon

[Gus Cabre]

Sorry, in the third paragraph it should say "you contact the Medical Section
of the CAA"

Gus

Post by Gus Cabre
Lyndon,
I am an aviation doctor. I am concerned that you believe you can turn up
the headset volume to max for your good ear as high volumes in headsets is
the main cause of deafness in pilots!! I am not joking but give up the
idea of using normal headsets without a hearing aid of some sort. I am not
expert on the different kinds of hearing aids, but I am sure there must be
some sort of loop hearing system that can be connected to the aircraft.
The aim is to lower that volume. The audiology department of your local
hospital might be able to advise. Or perhaps the American website you
mentioned in another e-mail.
It is not compulsory to use the radio if you are flying in uncontrolled
airspace. To qualify for a NPPL you must meat the medical requirements of
a DVLA class 2 (professional driving licence). This opened the door to
many pilots who could not satisfy the JAA medical standards. Severe
deafness is one of those conditions that wouldn't let you drive
professionally, but I cannot see why this should stop you from flying.
My advice is that if you are interested in a PPL, you Medical Section of
the CAA directly. Give them a call, explain your situation. They will
advise. There is no point in having a full medical as the AME would refer
your case to the CAA anyway. For the NPPL, there are 3 doctors who advise.
The NPPL medical standards have nothing to so with the CAA. The name of
these doctors will be in the NPPL website.
If what you wanted was to obtain a commercial licence, you can forget the
idea. You need a minimum of good hearing in both ears as you would require
to fully understand ATC.
Lyndon. I wish you well and good luck. I suspect that NPPL (perhaps
microlights) is your best option. As mentioned, look up the 3 medical
advisors for NPPL as your GP will not be able to certify you in this case.
I am sorry I have not given you good news, but I am concerned that you
might lose the rest of your hearing by just tweaking a little bi more that
volume knob.
Gus

Post by Lyndon
I am a wannabe student pilot with a hearing problem. I am completely deaf
in my left ear and moderately deaf in my right. I had a trial lesson to
see how well I could hear the instructor. With the radio volume set to max
and my headset volume set to max, I could hear my instructor when he was
talking to me, but I heard none of the conversation on the radio. This is
obviously a difficulty that needs to be sorted.
Just a thought. Is it possible that the radio conversations were played
in my left ear? Or would all speech be presented to both ears?
If the latter, are there any amplifying headsets available that would
give me an extra 40 or 50 dB of sound?
All suggestions/ideas would be gratefully received.
--
Lyndon

[Lyndon]

Gus,

Thanks for your help. Sorry about the delay, I've just got back from a
holiday.

I can't see the difference between wearing a hearing aid, (which is nothing
more than a slightly tailored amplifier with a gain of about 40 dB), and
turning up the volume on a headset. When I use a loop system at home or in a
theatre, it is just a way of getting good quality sound to my headset, but I
still need additional volume to overcome the hearing loss. Since I can't
wear my hearing aid with a headset, one solution would be to get the extra
volume from the headset itself. Alternatively, I did wonder about using
an'in the ear' aid with a headset as being a solution that was completely
down to me to implement, and doesn't involve me plugging things like loop
amplifiers into the aircraft comms system

Lyndon

Post by Gus Cabre
Lyndon,
I am an aviation doctor. I am concerned that you believe you can turn up
the headset volume to max for your good ear as high volumes in headsets is
the main cause of deafness in pilots!! I am not joking but give up the
idea of using normal headsets without a hearing aid of some sort. I am not
expert on the different kinds of hearing aids, but I am sure there must be
some sort of loop hearing system that can be connected to the aircraft.
The aim is to lower that volume. The audiology department of your local
hospital might be able to advise. Or perhaps the American website you
mentioned in another e-mail.
It is not compulsory to use the radio if you are flying in uncontrolled
airspace. To qualify for a NPPL you must meat the medical requirements of
a DVLA class 2 (professional driving licence). This opened the door to
many pilots who could not satisfy the JAA medical standards. Severe
deafness is one of those conditions that wouldn't let you drive
professionally, but I cannot see why this should stop you from flying.
My advice is that if you are interested in a PPL, you Medical Section of
the CAA directly. Give them a call, explain your situation. They will
advise. There is no point in having a full medical as the AME would refer
your case to the CAA anyway. For the NPPL, there are 3 doctors who advise.
The NPPL medical standards have nothing to so with the CAA. The name of
these doctors will be in the NPPL website.
If what you wanted was to obtain a commercial licence, you can forget the
idea. You need a minimum of good hearing in both ears as you would require
to fully understand ATC.
Lyndon. I wish you well and good luck. I suspect that NPPL (perhaps
microlights) is your best option. As mentioned, look up the 3 medical
advisors for NPPL as your GP will not be able to certify you in this case.
I am sorry I have not given you good news, but I am concerned that you
might lose the rest of your hearing by just tweaking a little bi more that
volume knob.
Gus

Post by Lyndon
I am a wannabe student pilot with a hearing problem. I am completely deaf
in my left ear and moderately deaf in my right. I had a trial lesson to
see how well I could hear the instructor. With the radio volume set to max
and my headset volume set to max, I could hear my instructor when he was
talking to me, but I heard none of the conversation on the radio. This is
obviously a difficulty that needs to be sorted.
Just a thought. Is it possible that the radio conversations were played
in my left ear? Or would all speech be presented to both ears?
If the latter, are there any amplifying headsets available that would
give me an extra 40 or 50 dB of sound?
All suggestions/ideas would be gratefully received.
--
Lyndon

[Peter]

Post by Lyndon
I can't see the difference between wearing a hearing aid, (which is nothing
more than a slightly tailored amplifier with a gain of about 40 dB), and
turning up the volume on a headset. When I use a loop system at home or in a
theatre, it is just a way of getting good quality sound to my headset, but I
still need additional volume to overcome the hearing loss. Since I can't
wear my hearing aid with a headset, one solution would be to get the extra
volume from the headset itself. Alternatively, I did wonder about using
an'in the ear' aid with a headset as being a solution that was completely
down to me to implement, and doesn't involve me plugging things like loop
amplifiers into the aircraft comms system

The problem is that aircraft headsets potentially can't handle the
extra power. 40db is quite a lot - it's 100x more power in linear
(watt) terms.

There are specialist headsets available. These tend to be custom made
and often involve in-ear emitters. One company to contact is Headset
Services at Shoreham Airport, Sussex. They do various bits like that -
as well as sell Bose and other headsets.

It's much easier to get the required power with an in-ear emitter than
with a large loudspeaker as is used in a normal headset, especially in
an ANR headset.

One advantage you do have is that your hearing loss will attenuate
aircraft noise very well, so you won't need ANR (noise cancelling)
headsets. In fact there isn't an ANR headset which offer a total
attenuation which is anywhere near your existing hearing loss. None of
them do even 40db. The Bose X, arguably the best there is, is around
25-28db total attenuation.

[Lyndon]

Post by Peter
There are specialist headsets available. These tend to be custom made
and often involve in-ear emitters. One company to contact is Headset
Services at Shoreham Airport, Sussex. They do various bits like that -
as well as sell Bose and other headsets.

Thanks Peter. I've just spoken to someone at Headset Services and he
proposed several possible solutions. It seems they may be able to connect
directly to my hearing aid, among other possibilities.

[Paul Sengupta]

If you could hear the instructor on the intercom, I suggest that the only
thing needed is to turn up the volume on the radio.

As has been mentioned, headsets usually have their own volume controls
so the intercom and radio can be turned up loud with your headset on full
volume and the instructor can turn his down.

Paul

Post by Lyndon

Post by Peter
There are specialist headsets available. These tend to be custom made
and often involve in-ear emitters. One company to contact is Headset
Services at Shoreham Airport, Sussex. They do various bits like that -
as well as sell Bose and other headsets.

Thanks Peter. I've just spoken to someone at Headset Services and he
proposed several possible solutions. It seems they may be able to connect
directly to my hearing aid, among other possibilities.
--
Lyndon

[Lyndon]

Radio volume was set to max, according to the instructor, and the headset
volume was set to max.

Very puzzling. Since I couldn't hear the instructor talking on the radio,
but could hear him talking to me I can only assume that he raised his voice
significantly when talking to me.

[Richard Herring]

Post by Lyndon
Radio volume was set to max, according to the instructor, and the headset
volume was set to max.
Very puzzling. Since I couldn't hear the instructor talking on the radio,
but could hear him talking to me

Could you hear the other end of the radio conversation?

Post by Lyndon
I can only assume that he raised his voice
significantly when talking to me.

You'd think impedance matching was a solved problem by now, but some
combinations of headsets, radios and intercoms still seem to interact
badly, and there is much folklore (most of it wrong) about them. I had
one headset with a microphone that worked fine on the intercom, but as
soon as I pressed the transmit button nothing came out, presumably
because the transmitter and intercom presented different impedances to
the mic. (It died altogether a few weeks later, so I didn't pursue the
problem.)

The only solution is experimentation. It's worth trying a few different
combinations (not just changing yours but also the instructor's headset,
and checking that both radio and intercom work on both talk and listen)
before giving up.