Discussion:
Pocket FMS
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pietro
2006-08-03 14:53:19 UTC
Permalink
Good ev'nin all. (Shades of Dixon):-)

Has anyone in this group had any experience with Pocket FMS?
How accurate is it? How reliable is the Navdata etc.
Tks in advance

P.
Peter
2006-08-03 16:47:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by pietro
Good ev'nin all. (Shades of Dixon):-)
Has anyone in this group had any experience with Pocket FMS?
How accurate is it? How reliable is the Navdata etc.
Tks in advance
It has dedicated followers and the features appear very hard to beat.
I can't speak for reliability, not having used it.

My personal view is that I would rather pay a bit and get a product
that is updated regularly from the national AIPs and doesn't rely on
volunteers. But then I do occassional long flights abroad.

I use Navbox www.navbox.nl, and Jeppview Flitemap. FM is a clunky
piece of junk, very hard to use, but has handy IFR features, and
reasonable charts.
N***@easily.co.uk
2006-08-03 22:24:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by pietro
Good ev'nin all. (Shades of Dixon):-)
Has anyone in this group had any experience with Pocket FMS?
How accurate is it? How reliable is the Navdata etc.
Tks in advance
P.
Why not download the prog for free and read all about it along with
comments from many users worldwideat: http://www.pocketfms.com
It is fully functional so you can judge yourself how good the prog
really is. If you donate €50 you get more detailed maps and NavData
updated every 2 hours, otherwise every month.

Many users of PFMS abandon other progs due to all the features.

David
TMG
2006-08-05 20:22:12 UTC
Permalink
I am a user (VFR only), and until now it has worked perfectly!

I've had two occasions where it actually was more accurate than my maps.
Obviously you should not use it for primary navigation, but I think it's a
great tool!

Check it out, it's free!

TMG
Post by pietro
Good ev'nin all. (Shades of Dixon):-)
Has anyone in this group had any experience with Pocket FMS?
How accurate is it? How reliable is the Navdata etc.
Tks in advance
P.
Peter
2006-08-05 20:26:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by TMG
I've had two occasions where it actually was more accurate than my maps.
Obviously you should not use it for primary navigation, but I think it's a
great tool!
This begs the question: what should one use for primary navigation, if
not relying on the GPS position?

And relying on the raw GPS position (latitude/longitude) is no good;
much too confusing.

So one has to rely on the map features on the GPS, to some degree.

The "primary navigation" phrase is frequently used in UK GA but is not
supported by anything whatsoever in UK legislation (the ANO). You are
allowed to navigate any way you wish.
Stefan
2006-08-05 21:27:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
This begs the question: what should one use for primary navigation, if
not relying on the GPS position?
Looking out of the window?

Stefan
Alt Beer
2006-08-06 07:32:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan
Post by Peter
This begs the question: what should one use for primary navigation, if
not relying on the GPS position?
Looking out of the window?
LOL
Rob Hailstone
2006-10-29 11:47:49 UTC
Permalink
I've been impressed by Pocket FMS all round, but the best safety feature is
that Nav database updates are free. As opposed to the rip-off prices for
database updates to commercial GPS systems, there is no disincentive to
update the date routinely.

(Plus the fact that a top-rate PDA plus GPS receiver is a fraction of the
cost of an entry-level colour GPS).

The only thing to watch out for is that you clear from memory all other
active programs, just in case one of the other progs freezes the PDA at the
wrong moment.

Rob.
Post by pietro
Good ev'nin all. (Shades of Dixon):-)
Has anyone in this group had any experience with Pocket FMS?
How accurate is it? How reliable is the Navdata etc.
Tks in advance
P.
Peter
2006-10-29 15:32:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Hailstone
I've been impressed by Pocket FMS all round, but the best safety feature is
that Nav database updates are free. As opposed to the rip-off prices for
database updates to commercial GPS systems, there is no disincentive to
update the date routinely.
(Plus the fact that a top-rate PDA plus GPS receiver is a fraction of the
cost of an entry-level colour GPS).
The only thing to watch out for is that you clear from memory all other
active programs, just in case one of the other progs freezes the PDA at the
wrong moment.
Rob.
Post by pietro
Good ev'nin all. (Shades of Dixon):-)
Has anyone in this group had any experience with Pocket FMS?
How accurate is it? How reliable is the Navdata etc.
Tks in advance
P.
The above is not the whole story, unfortunately.

I've seen PocketFMS and do like it, but the bottom line is that nobody
is getting paid for regular updates. It's probably fine for the UK,
whose aviation nooks and crannies tend to get probed fairly regularly,
but I am not sure if I would trust it for a 1500nm flight south of
here, for example.

Navbox (www.navbox.nl) gets updated regularly, and the cost is
insignificant on the scale of flying costs.

A PDA makes a reasonable GPS but it's very easy to touch the screen by
accident, etc, and you've lost it. Pocket/PC is an unstable operating
system at the best of times. I've spent a lot of time playing with
these devices... an aviation GPS has to be very dependable.
TMG
2006-10-31 22:08:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
The above is not the whole story, unfortunately.
Neither is yours I'm afraid...

I've been pretty much all over Europe using PFMS as my secondary nav-aid
(regular charts being primary). It has been more accurate than the charts...

Any Pocket PC device is not the most stable platform, I would not use it in
IMC (not allowed either, and for a good reason). However, in the last 100
hrs cross country PFMS has not let me down once...

I'm not saying P FMS is better than Navbox, but it does do what it is
supposed to do fairly well.

Arnoud

(Not involved in PocketFMS nor Navbox in any way shape or form)
Post by Peter
Post by Rob Hailstone
I've been impressed by Pocket FMS all round, but the best safety feature is
that Nav database updates are free. As opposed to the rip-off prices for
database updates to commercial GPS systems, there is no disincentive to
update the date routinely.
(Plus the fact that a top-rate PDA plus GPS receiver is a fraction of the
cost of an entry-level colour GPS).
The only thing to watch out for is that you clear from memory all other
active programs, just in case one of the other progs freezes the PDA at the
wrong moment.
Rob.
Post by pietro
Good ev'nin all. (Shades of Dixon):-)
Has anyone in this group had any experience with Pocket FMS?
How accurate is it? How reliable is the Navdata etc.
Tks in advance
P.
The above is not the whole story, unfortunately.
I've seen PocketFMS and do like it, but the bottom line is that nobody
is getting paid for regular updates. It's probably fine for the UK,
whose aviation nooks and crannies tend to get probed fairly regularly,
but I am not sure if I would trust it for a 1500nm flight south of
here, for example.
Navbox (www.navbox.nl) gets updated regularly, and the cost is
insignificant on the scale of flying costs.
A PDA makes a reasonable GPS but it's very easy to touch the screen by
accident, etc, and you've lost it. Pocket/PC is an unstable operating
system at the best of times. I've spent a lot of time playing with
these devices... an aviation GPS has to be very dependable.
Peter
2006-11-01 08:26:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by TMG
Any Pocket PC device is not the most stable platform, I would not use it in
IMC (not allowed either, and for a good reason).
Can you offer a reference for the IMC bit?
Post by TMG
However, in the last 100
hrs cross country PFMS has not let me down once...
I'm not saying P FMS is better than Navbox, but it does do what it is
supposed to do fairly well.
I don't disagree with you. I was trying to point out that it doesn't
have a regular update process based on the national AIPs - or does it?
Does somebody actually have a job of doing that, and would the users
find out if that person stopped doing it?

If PocketFMS was guaranteed to be updated, it would be far better than
Navbox.
TMG
2006-11-02 20:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
Can you offer a reference for the IMC bit?
I just would not want to rely on any PocketPC platform in IMC. Backup, fine,
rely on it: no thanks! That's all.
Post by Peter
If PocketFMS was guaranteed to be updated, it would be far better than
Navbox.
I would wonder about any guarantee Navbox gives. Then again, I don't know
Navbox very well. I know that -at least until recently- PFMS got their data
both from NIMA (US DOD) in combination with User Maintained Data from the
various AIP's. Until now the data has been very accurate. I won't vouch for
the future, but it seems to be very well under controll.

Still, PFMS remains my secondary means of navigation. It helps a lot in
situational awareness but I do look at the paper maps too!
Peter
2006-11-03 10:12:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by TMG
Post by Peter
Can you offer a reference for the IMC bit?
I just would not want to rely on any PocketPC platform in IMC. Backup, fine,
rely on it: no thanks! That's all.
I would agree with that :)

A general comment on PDAs and such: always do a soft reset (by poking
the stylus into the little hole) before a flight. The operating system
is not stable otherwise.

I have noticed some of the many US PDA flight-related software
products suggest this too in their instructions.
Post by TMG
Post by Peter
If PocketFMS was guaranteed to be updated, it would be far better than
Navbox.
I would wonder about any guarantee Navbox gives. Then again, I don't know
Navbox very well. I know that -at least until recently- PFMS got their data
both from NIMA (US DOD) in combination with User Maintained Data from the
various AIP's. Until now the data has been very accurate. I won't vouch for
the future, but it seems to be very well under controll.
I think DAFIF is ending about now, which has upset a load of planning
software producers. One can generate a load of reports from the
Eurocontrol data, but I gather it isn't quite so machine readable.
It's the airspace changes that are the hardest to maintain; you have
to pick your way through coordinate lists. Yet, that is the aspect
which I suspect is going to catch out the most people; navaids never
move about.

Navbox doesn't guarantee anything, but neither does anybody else,
AFAIK.
Post by TMG
Still, PFMS remains my secondary means of navigation. It helps a lot in
situational awareness but I do look at the paper maps too!
I wish somebody did a rugged PDA. Actually they do, but they are very
pricey..
NoSpam
2006-11-03 11:34:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by TMG
Post by Peter
Can you offer a reference for the IMC bit?
I just would not want to rely on any PocketPC platform in IMC. Backup, fine,
rely on it: no thanks! That's all.
Post by Peter
If PocketFMS was guaranteed to be updated, it would be far better than
Navbox.
I would wonder about any guarantee Navbox gives. Then again, I don't know
Navbox very well. I know that -at least until recently- PFMS got their data
both from NIMA (US DOD) in combination with User Maintained Data from the
various AIP's. Until now the data has been very accurate. I won't vouch for
the future, but it seems to be very well under controll.
Still, PFMS remains my secondary means of navigation. It helps a lot in
situational awareness but I do look at the paper maps too!
I was up until the early hours of this morning playing around with PFMS
and reading the manual, it looks very good but the PC version is much
better than the PPC version (not too surprising); maps in particular are
a bit clunky. I'm thinking of using this on a 320x240 IPAQ; before I
make my donation can someone tell me how much improved the "improved map
quality" is compared to the standard maps?

I'm tempted to switch to a 640x480 IPAQ (HX4700) but people on the PFMS
forum are suggesting that it's very flaky at the higher resolution - any
experience?

What about other PDA-based planning/map software? PocketFlymap looks
good but at £300 (+ annual cost of updates) it's a bit pricy for a
product without a track record or "big company" support; is there
anything else available?

Dave
Peter
2006-11-03 13:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoSpam
I'm tempted to switch to a 640x480 IPAQ (HX4700) but people on the PFMS
forum are suggesting that it's very flaky at the higher resolution - any
experience?
I use an HP 4700 to run Memory Map, Oziexplorer and a few other apps,
all in 640x480 using the SE-VGA freeware hack to set the screen to
640x480.

Haven't tried PocketFMS.

A lot of apps don't work in this mode; some appear in the top left 1/4
of the screen, while others do as aforementioned but with some buttons
elsewhere on the full screen :)
Post by NoSpam
What about other PDA-based planning/map software? PocketFlymap looks
good but at £300 (+ annual cost of updates) it's a bit pricy for a
product without a track record or "big company" support; is there
anything else available?
Nothing I know of with European coverage.

Plenty of US airspace products.
Rob Hailstone
2006-11-09 20:48:14 UTC
Permalink
I use PocketFMS on a Dell Axim X50V at 640*480 resolution & not had any
problems at all. The only instability I have had has been due to other
software, which has frozen the op system. (I have an old version of TomTom
for a previous version of the op system, that runs fine for an hour or so
then crashes. So I go along with the idea that you should do a soft reset
then only load PocketFMS. It's probably asking for trouble to have 2
different GPS programs running at the same time anyway.)
Rob.
Post by Peter
Post by NoSpam
I'm tempted to switch to a 640x480 IPAQ (HX4700) but people on the PFMS
forum are suggesting that it's very flaky at the higher resolution - any
experience?
I use an HP 4700 to run Memory Map, Oziexplorer and a few other apps,
all in 640x480 using the SE-VGA freeware hack to set the screen to
640x480.
Haven't tried PocketFMS.
A lot of apps don't work in this mode; some appear in the top left 1/4
of the screen, while others do as aforementioned but with some buttons
elsewhere on the full screen :)
Post by NoSpam
What about other PDA-based planning/map software? PocketFlymap looks
good but at £300 (+ annual cost of updates) it's a bit pricy for a
product without a track record or "big company" support; is there
anything else available?
Nothing I know of with European coverage.
Plenty of US airspace products.
pietro
2006-11-06 07:41:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoSpam
I'm tempted to switch to a 640x480 IPAQ (HX4700)
Buy a tablett PC if the IPAQ is too small.


but people on the PFMS
Post by NoSpam
forum are suggesting that it's very flaky at the higher resolution - any
experience?
The map quality is a lot better. Coastal contours, highways,
rivers etc are more exact. Definitely worth a donation. It's
worth remembering, that all of these devices are only as accurate
as their GPS reception.

When all is said and done, all you need to know is where you are!
For that you don't really need a moving map, do you?

Sometimes I have the feeling that some pilots want to be
entertained by their GPS-Handhelds.

I've used PFMS on a PDA in the UK, France, Switzerland,
California and Florida and it does the job as well as a PDA will
allow, which is pretty good. But, I don't rely solely upon
something which could give up the ghost at any time - that also
includes my Garmin.

The main disadvantage in my opinion lies in bright sunlight. On a
PDA it is almost impossible to see anything on the screen without
using some sort of sunshade. Here the older monochrome GPS units
have the advantage.

Make a donation and join the happy band of Victor Meldrews :-) -
Nothing is perfect.

P.
Mark Jones Laptop2
2006-11-04 21:09:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by TMG
Post by Peter
The above is not the whole story, unfortunately.
Neither is yours I'm afraid...
I've been pretty much all over Europe using PFMS as my secondary nav-aid
(regular charts being primary). It has been more accurate than the charts...
really!

are you sure it isn't your flight planning? Charts are very accuarate but as
we all know the forecast winds are not - and unforeseen ATC permissions will
slow down your flight plan - yet simply flying/driving to a GPS waypoint is
a piece of cake.
TMG
2006-11-06 20:22:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Jones Laptop2
Post by TMG
It has been more accurate than the charts...
really!
are you sure it isn't your flight planning? Charts are very accuarate but as
we all know the forecast winds are not - and unforeseen ATC permissions will
slow down your flight plan - yet simply flying/driving to a GPS waypoint is
a piece of cake.
You lost me.
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