Trip report, IFR UK to Prague, Czech Republic

[Peter]

This might be of interest to those working towards the IR

http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/prague/index.html

[david]

Brilliant posting Peter. I'll have a much better look through that later.

David

Post by Peter
This might be of interest to those working towards the IR
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/prague/index.html

[karel]

Post by Peter
This might be of interest to those working towards the IR
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/prague/index.html

Peter, thank you very much for sharing your experience.
Some ideas I already gathered are confirmed here
but you have (willingly?) raised a couple of questions:

-) you seem to think it normal your return trip got a large
detour whereas the outbound was rather straightforward; why?
-) and even if the return trip could not be really straightforward,
could you not have got a more southerly route?
Or perhaps you avoided French airspace quite willlingly?
-) I find it particularly frightening that a large part of your
return trip was over water, without any apparent need.
Of course you were quite high up and never far off land,
so if the engine quit you could have glided to the nearest beach.
-) what about customs? I think Czechia joined the Schengen
agreement but the UK didn't, and is Shoreham a customs airfield?
-) what do you mean by Shoreham being a "towered" field?
That there's some nice volunteer handing out info?
The real point seems to be whether it is in controlled airspace or not?

[Peter]

Post by karel

Post by Peter
This might be of interest to those working towards the IR
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/prague/index.html

Peter, thank you very much for sharing your experience.
Some ideas I already gathered are confirmed here
-) you seem to think it normal your return trip got a large
detour whereas the outbound was rather straightforward; why?

Airways are not everywhere, but the relevant factor in this case is
that some airways are one-way streets only

Post by karel
-) and even if the return trip could not be really straightforward,
could you not have got a more southerly route?

Possible; I did not investigate it.

Post by karel
Or perhaps you avoided French airspace quite willlingly?

No reason to do that :)

Post by karel
-) I find it particularly frightening that a large part of your
return trip was over water, without any apparent need.
Of course you were quite high up and never far off land,
so if the engine quit you could have glided to the nearest beach.

The essential thing in flying is that one always has an escape route.
If the engine goes, one should be able to land in a field, and for
over water flights I carry a raft which is regularly serviced.

This route did not give me a glide to land option - too far away.

If you think that flight was over a lot of water, this is the sort of
stupid risk-taking which you have to do if you cannot go IFR:

Loading Image...

of which most was flown at 1000-2000ft, below the completely pointless
Class A airspace and often below level at which we had VHF
communications. 30-60 seconds to ditching.

Post by karel
-) what about customs? I think Czechia joined the Schengen
agreement but the UK didn't, and is Shoreham a customs airfield?

Yes and yes.

Post by karel
-) what do you mean by Shoreham being a "towered" field?
That there's some nice volunteer handing out info?

That is probably not a relevant comment; I have since learnt that the
radio operator at any UK airfield is supposed to be able to phone up
London Control (or whatever) and get you the abbreviated airways
clearance. It's also true that a lot of them don't know this and
refuse to do it... so you have to pick up the airways clearance from
the area FIS service (London Information usually).

Post by karel
The real point seems to be whether it is in controlled airspace or not?

Yes, I think you are exactly right.

[karel]

Post by Peter

Post by karel
-) you seem to think it normal your return trip got a large
detour whereas the outbound was rather straightforward; why?

Airways are not everywhere, but the relevant factor in this case is
that some airways are one-way streets only

Ah! Never knew that, thanks for teaching me!

Post by Peter

Post by karel
Or perhaps you avoided French airspace quite willlingly?

No reason to do that :)

smile noticed...

Post by Peter

Post by karel
-) I find it particularly frightening that a large part of your
return trip was over water, without any apparent need.
Of course you were quite high up and never far off land,
so if the engine quit you could have glided to the nearest beach.

( ... )

Post by Peter
If you think that flight was over a lot of water, this is the sort of
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/crete/lgkr-lfkb.gif
of which most was flown at 1000-2000ft, below the completely pointless
Class A airspace and often below level at which we had VHF
communications. 30-60 seconds to ditching.

Do they really have class A as low as 1000-2000 ft?
I can imagine they don't want any G/A anywhere near Rome
but could you not have followed the Italian Adriatic coast
then cross the peninsula at its least wide point, say Ancona to Pisa?

And does this very low class A extend over the sea towards Corsica?
Even more ridiculous!

Again thanks for discussion, I am far from making
your kind of flight but can't stop thinking about them.
Karel (from the Continent)

[Peter]

Post by karel
Do they really have class A as low as 1000-2000 ft?
I can imagine they don't want any G/A anywhere near Rome

I don't see any reason for having Class A down to 1000ft so far out
over the sea. Controlled airspace is normally to protect airways
and/or SIDs/STARs (approaches) etc but they can't have commercial
traffic that low and that far out.

Post by karel
but could you not have followed the Italian Adriatic coast
then cross the peninsula at its least wide point, say Ancona to Pisa?

Sure could, yes.

However, I did the Italian Adriatic coast (from Switzerland LSPV to
Corfu) in 2004 and it looked pretty dirty; just built-up towns and
factories. The other Adriatic coast (Croatia etc) is beautiful
however.

Post by karel
And does this very low class A extend over the sea towards Corsica?
Even more ridiculous!

Towards Corsica, one can climb to something like 5000ft, if I recall.
One goes close to Montecristo Island at that time:

Loading Image...

Post by karel
Again thanks for discussion, I am far from making
your kind of flight but can't stop thinking about them.
Karel (from the Continent)

The funny thing is that one can do very similar flights under VFR (as
I have shown in the writeups). The bare execution of the trip becomes
much more dependent on weather but if you want good scenery you have
to wait for good weather regardless of whether you can legally go IFR
or VFR. My next long-ish trip (August) will be Prague, Lubjana
(Slovenia), Dubrovnik (Croatia), Corfu, and then maybe 1 stop in N.
Italy on the way back to the UK. Probably only the Prague leg will be
IFR, unless the weather is really good. After that it will be VFR
because flying lower down, say 5000ft, is so much more enjoyable -
unless the weather is crap and we just have to get moving.

The Italian Class A stuff is one big exception where IFR capability
really comes into its own. Business travel is the other one. But
really once one is out of gliding range of land it doesn't matter how
much worse you get. Once you aren't a virgin anymore it doesn't much
matter what you do :) You have to carry a raft+EPIRB (406MHz locator
beacon) anyway; without it you have no escape route, and there is no
practical difference between ditching in 1 minute and ditching in 10
minutes. It doesn't bother me; engine failures (on these types of
engines) barely feature in accident statistics.

[Peter]

Post by karel
-) what do you mean by Shoreham being a "towered" field?
That there's some nice volunteer handing out info?
The real point seems to be whether it is in controlled airspace or not?

Now corrected.

[Dave]

Post by Peter
This might be of interest to those working towards the IR
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/prague/index.html

A very good write-up that will help a lot of people.

Dave

[Julian Scarfe]

Post by Peter
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/prague/index.html

If you have cause to do the Frankfurt E-W bit again, I imagine Belgium is
shorter:

SULUS L984 BOMBI Z75 NOKDI Z104 GESLO R7 LNO L607 MAK

is permitted at FL120 and above, then descend below FL100 for

L607 KONAN L9 DVR

or route via L610 if you want to stay high.

Julian

[Peter]

Post by Julian Scarfe

Post by Peter
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/prague/index.html

If you have cause to do the Frankfurt E-W bit again, I imagine Belgium is
SULUS L984 BOMBI Z75 NOKDI Z104 GESLO R7 LNO L607 MAK
is permitted at FL120 and above, then descend below FL100 for
L607 KONAN L9 DVR
or route via L610 if you want to stay high.

That's great Julian, thanks. How did you work that out? Using the
route documents? One day I will have to look at those :)

[Julian Scarfe]

Post by Peter
That's great Julian, thanks. How did you work that out? Using the
route documents?

From lots of flight planning pain!

Generally, the E <-> W crossing of FFM is difficult and the restrictions are
complex. The ED RAD does offer some guidance at low level (< FL120):

Eastbound
ULMEN-DCT-KIR-DCT-OLIVI-DCT-RID-DCT-AKONI-DCT-WUR

Westbound
VADRU-G103-NISTE-DCT-RID-DCT-OLIVI-DCT-KIR-DCT-KELUX

are the suggested routings. Worth having them up your sleeve!

J