Help please.....Scottish/Shanwick Oceanic Track Routing

[karangahape]

For many years when I lived in southern Scotland, I could monitor
transatlantic air traffic on vhf radio talking the Prestwick (Scottish ATC)
and exchanging oceanic track details. My terrestrial location allowed me to
listen to both sides of the 'traffic'. I've now moved to coastal north west
Scotland living directly beneath one of the main oceanic flight paths and
can see incoming and outward bound transatlantic flights most clear days. I
can only pick up vhf radio traffic from the aircraft, as I'm too distant
from Prestwick to receive their side.
Can anyone explain in plain and simple terms how the Air Traffic Control
track routing works? A link to an appropriate web site would be useful!
I'm aware of the existence of Tracks Alpha, Charlie, Delta etc and also the
significance of '57 10' where aircraft enter or leave VHF contact and engage
on oceanic HF (which I can also monitor, but rarely manage to sync with VHF
changeover).The oceanic tracks seem to shift depending on weather, I
presume, to optimise fuel economy and clear passage etc.
Most of the aircraft I can see passing over the house appear to be climbing
or levelling at around 29,000 ft and appear physically as a silver 'bird'
with twin, triple or quad vapour trails, depending on the type of craft.
With good binocs it should be possible to identify the aircraft type at that
height, but maybe that's being too optimistic - any views?
It would be interesting to link visual contact with the radio traffic I'm
listening to and part of that link could depend on ident of aircraft type
(too high to pick out ant identifying marks on fuselage or wings etc, I
think)

I'd be interested if anyone can contribute info to this topic. New to this
group too, so don't know if I'm even on topic here.....Keith

[News_Demon]

Post by karangahape
For many years when I lived in southern Scotland, I could monitor
transatlantic air traffic on vhf radio talking the Prestwick (Scottish ATC)
and exchanging oceanic track details. My terrestrial location allowed me to
listen to both sides of the 'traffic'. I've now moved to coastal north west
Scotland living directly beneath one of the main oceanic flight paths and
can see incoming and outward bound transatlantic flights most clear days. I
can only pick up vhf radio traffic from the aircraft, as I'm too distant
from Prestwick to receive their side.
Can anyone explain in plain and simple terms how the Air Traffic Control
track routing works? A link to an appropriate web site would be useful!
I'm aware of the existence of Tracks Alpha, Charlie, Delta etc and also the
significance of '57 10' where aircraft enter or leave VHF contact and engage
on oceanic HF (which I can also monitor, but rarely manage to sync with VHF
changeover).The oceanic tracks seem to shift depending on weather, I
presume, to optimise fuel economy and clear passage etc.
Most of the aircraft I can see passing over the house appear to be climbing
or levelling at around 29,000 ft and appear physically as a silver 'bird'
with twin, triple or quad vapour trails, depending on the type of craft.
With good binocs it should be possible to identify the aircraft type at that
height, but maybe that's being too optimistic - any views?
It would be interesting to link visual contact with the radio traffic I'm
listening to and part of that link could depend on ident of aircraft type
(too high to pick out ant identifying marks on fuselage or wings etc, I
think)
I'd be interested if anyone can contribute info to this topic. New to this
group too, so don't know if I'm even on topic here.....Keith

does anyone know where they actually ask for oceanic clearance, as I can
hear the aircraft VHF in NW London?



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[VinMan]

Post by karangahape
Can anyone explain in plain and simple terms how the Air Traffic Control
track routing works? A link to an appropriate web site would be useful!

Hello,
I suggest you browse this for a start :
http://www.vatsim-uk.org/Oceanic/procs.asp

As well as this :
http://vekinis.org.lu/mtgabri.html

Notwithstanding this :
http://www.nat-pco.org/nat/Current%20ORCA.pdf

with the basic rules such as

"3. Requesting Shanwick Oceanic Clearance
3.1 GENERAL
3.1.1 Aircraft must not enter Shanwick Oceanic Airspace without a clearance.
3.1.2 Crews should request Oceanic clearance not more than 90 minutes
flying time from the OCA
boundary. RCLs outwith this parameter, will be rejected.
3.1.3 Crews should request Oceanic clearance not less than 30 minutes
flying time from the OCA
boundary. RCLs outwith this parameter, will be rejected.
3.1.4 If a flight is within 15 minutes of the OCA boundary and no
clearance has been received, the crew
must contact Shanwick by voice and advise the ATC authority for the
airspace in which they are
operating.

[Peter]

Who works out the optimal routes over the Atlantic?

Is it done by some central operation to which the airlines all pay
money, or does each airline's ops department work it out (from the jet
stream data, winds aloft etc) and they then file the chosen route on
the flight plan which is then handed to the pilot as he gets onto the
aircraft?

[VinMan]

Post by Peter
Who works out the optimal routes over the Atlantic?
Is it done by some central operation to which the airlines all pay
money, or does each airline's ops department work it out (from the jet
stream data, winds aloft etc) and they then file the chosen route on
the flight plan which is then handed to the pilot as he gets onto the
aircraft?

The little I know is this :

someone (probably an Oceanic Control Centre such as Shanwick or all of
them) each day calculates the "best" ways to cross the pond, as far as
fuel saving and minimum time are concerned.
Then it's published as the OTS (Organized Track System)
Then the Airline all file for one of the published tracks or on a random
track.

[B S D Chapman]

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:56:29 +0100, VinMan

Post by VinMan

Who works out the optimal routes over the Atlantic? Is it done by some
central operation to which the airlines all pay
money, or does each airline's ops department work it out (from the jet
stream data, winds aloft etc) and they then file the chosen route on
the flight plan which is then handed to the pilot as he gets onto the
aircraft?

someone (probably an Oceanic Control Centre such as Shanwick or all of
them) each day calculates the "best" ways to cross the pond, as far as
fuel saving and minimum time are concerned.

Correct.
Except it is just the outbound centre that publishes the track system. So
Shanwick publish the tracks for routes out from Europe, Gander choose and
publish tracks for NAT tracks eastbound.

[karangahape]

Post by B S D Chapman
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:56:29 +0100, VinMan

Post by VinMan

Who works out the optimal routes over the Atlantic? Is it done by some
central operation to which the airlines all pay
money, or does each airline's ops department work it out (from the jet
stream data, winds aloft etc) and they then file the chosen route on
the flight plan which is then handed to the pilot as he gets onto the
aircraft?

someone (probably an Oceanic Control Centre such as Shanwick or all of
them) each day calculates the "best" ways to cross the pond, as far as
fuel saving and minimum time are concerned.

Correct.
Except it is just the outbound centre that publishes the track system. So
Shanwick publish the tracks for routes out from Europe, Gander choose and
publish tracks for NAT tracks eastbound.
--
The fine art of whacking the cr*p out of an electronic device to get it to
work again.

Thanks for that further clarification - I'm still puzzled..... living on the
west coast of Scotland I often see 'pulses' of west bound aircraft heading
on identical tracking and at around the same height (est at 25k feet),
climbing steadily and crossing over Island of Mull. Usually around 8 per
hour for 3 or 4 hours on most settled days. Then no traffic at all for a few
hours, then another pulse of east bound aircraft effectively on a reverse
heading. Sometimes I can see both east and west bound traffic with
appropriate lateral separation. Can't see all that being covered by a 'once
a day calculation' and details being handed out on papers passed to
departing pilots at airports! Maybe it's just all based on Shanwick's best
calculations to optimise best high level winds and appropriate lateral
separations....Keith