Air displays over water - rules?

[David Cartwright]

Hi all,

Completely by chance, we saw an excellent display by five helicopters over
the Solent on Saturday. We were coming back from the Isle of Wight on the
ferry, and got an awesome view of the display, which was obviously being
done to coincide with the sailing festival at Cowes.

The thing is, though, that these aircraft were all flying very low (no
surprises there, as it was a display!), and directly over a stretch of water
that was chock-full of yachts. They were chucking them about quite a bit
too. I found myself thinking that if one of them had a serious problem,
they'd have a very difficult job coming down without landing on something.

I know there are strict rules relating to land-based air displays which
dictate the establishment of a "display line" and ensure that flying
machines that crash do so away from the audience. Do similar rules exist for
shows over the sea?

David C

[Peter]

Post by David Cartwright
Hi all,
Completely by chance, we saw an excellent display by five helicopters over
the Solent on Saturday. We were coming back from the Isle of Wight on the
ferry, and got an awesome view of the display, which was obviously being
done to coincide with the sailing festival at Cowes.
The thing is, though, that these aircraft were all flying very low (no
surprises there, as it was a display!), and directly over a stretch of water
that was chock-full of yachts. They were chucking them about quite a bit
too. I found myself thinking that if one of them had a serious problem,
they'd have a very difficult job coming down without landing on something.
I know there are strict rules relating to land-based air displays which
dictate the establishment of a "display line" and ensure that flying
machines that crash do so away from the audience. Do similar rules exist for
shows over the sea?
David C

I don't know anything about rules for displays where the CAA has given
some sort of authorisation, but you can legally descend to the
*surface* of the water, so long as you remain 500ft away from the
nearest boat etc.

In the open, 500ft is a lot less than it looks, and this causes a lot
of objectors to report illegal low flying when in fact the pilot was
completely legal.

[Andy R]

Post by Peter

Post by David Cartwright
Hi all,
Completely by chance, we saw an excellent display by five helicopters over
the Solent on Saturday. We were coming back from the Isle of Wight on the
ferry, and got an awesome view of the display, which was obviously being
done to coincide with the sailing festival at Cowes.
The thing is, though, that these aircraft were all flying very low (no
surprises there, as it was a display!), and directly over a stretch of water
that was chock-full of yachts. They were chucking them about quite a bit
too. I found myself thinking that if one of them had a serious problem,
they'd have a very difficult job coming down without landing on something.
I know there are strict rules relating to land-based air displays which
dictate the establishment of a "display line" and ensure that flying
machines that crash do so away from the audience. Do similar rules exist for
shows over the sea?
David C

I don't know anything about rules for displays where the CAA has given
some sort of authorisation, but you can legally descend to the
*surface* of the water, so long as you remain 500ft away from the
nearest boat etc.
In the open, 500ft is a lot less than it looks, and this causes a lot
of objectors to report illegal low flying when in fact the pilot was
completely legal.

Going a bit o/t now wasn't there an issue a while ago where somebody was
reported for low flying and the complaint was upheld because he was within
500ft of a fence (ie structure)? If so, there are probably very few places
in the UK away from the mountains, moors and sea where you're not within
500ft of something man made.

Rgds

Andy R

[Peter]

Post by Andy R
Going a bit o/t now wasn't there an issue a while ago where somebody was
reported for low flying and the complaint was upheld because he was within
500ft of a fence (ie structure)? If so, there are probably very few places
in the UK away from the mountains, moors and sea where you're not within
500ft of something man made.

I would ask for a reference for that.

There are so many urban myths in this business. Often they are spread
by instructors. One instructor I had for the IMC Rating told me that
somebody was flying low over open water and there was a submerged RN
submarine, and he got done for low flying because he was within 500ft
of it.

One could make a very long list of these tales....

[David Cartwright]

Post by Peter
I don't know anything about rules for displays where the CAA has given
some sort of authorisation, but you can legally descend to the
*surface* of the water, so long as you remain 500ft away from the
nearest boat etc.

I reckon they were OK with regard to the 500' rule - they were probably
about 500'-600' high at their lowest point (there were so many yachts that
the closest one would generally have been vertically below, give or take a
few feet). I was just wondering about displays over the sea, as this (a) was
clearly a display and (b) would not, as I understand it, have been permitted
to take place over land with a crowd of spectators below in such a place
that an aircraft going out of control would definitely have impacted them.

D.

[Woody]

Are you sure they weren't maintaining a clear area between the shore and the
boats where they were flying. We have an air show here every year on the
south shore of Lake Erie. The boats are kept a distance off shore to give
the aircraft a clear area over the water to perform. You couldn't see the
clear area from a distance away on the lake.

Post by David Cartwright

Post by Peter
I don't know anything about rules for displays where the CAA has given
some sort of authorisation, but you can legally descend to the
*surface* of the water, so long as you remain 500ft away from the
nearest boat etc.

I reckon they were OK with regard to the 500' rule - they were probably
about 500'-600' high at their lowest point (there were so many yachts that
the closest one would generally have been vertically below, give or take a
few feet). I was just wondering about displays over the sea, as this (a)
was clearly a display and (b) would not, as I understand it, have been
permitted to take place over land with a crowd of spectators below in such
a place that an aircraft going out of control would definitely have
impacted them.
D.

[David Cartwright]

Post by Woody
Are you sure they weren't maintaining a clear area between the shore and
the boats where they were flying. We have an air show here every year on
the south shore of Lake Erie. The boats are kept a distance off shore to
give the aircraft a clear area over the water to perform. You couldn't see
the clear area from a distance away on the lake.

No, there wasn't any clear area that I was aware of, and we were pretty
close (our ferry was being led out of the harbour by a small port authority
boat that was making a path through the small yachts so we could get
through). Few of the several hundred boats would have been in radio
communication, or within loud-hailer distance.

Now here's a thought: do seamen have the equivalent of NOTAMs? Would the
existence of a display have been published anywhere that boat captains are
required to look?

D.

[Edward Hawkins]

Post by David Cartwright
Now here's a thought: do seamen have the equivalent of NOTAMs? Would the
existence of a display have been published anywhere that boat captains are
required to look?

There are Admiralty Notices to Mariners, but for an event such as this it
would most likely be promulgated by Notices to Mariners issued by the local
competant harbour authority (CHA)

Edward